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Stove/wood burner


LadyR

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48 minutes ago, LadyR said:

I have another question if that’s ok. I have decided to go with the Morso 1412, because it’s defra approved and should the boat ever make it into a smokeless zone all will be good. I want to know if I need to go with the large insulated flu pipe?  It looks huge. 

 

I worked out the surface area of the stove, and then worked out the surface area of the flue and they were pretty much the same.

If you go for an insulated flue you will be losing around 50% of the heat that is being produced by the fire by sending it 'up the chimney' to heat the outside world.

 

Use a standard single-skin flue the same as tens of thousands of other boaters do,

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Flue design depends on a number of things, the end result being the correct amount of draw (suction) at the stove for correct operation.

 

I expect Morso will specify a minimum length of flue above the stove to achieve the minimum advisable draw, a length that you may struggle to achieve. Most boat owners just do the best that they can and keep their fingers crossed and for most people it seems to work.

 

One insulates the flue to maximise the draw which may already be compromised by too short a length. Once again, many don't bother and get away with it.

 

I've used Squirrel stoves with short flues on boats and long flues in houses and there is a substantial difference in performance, but they both work okay.

 

What I did was to have a standard single walled flue pipe topped with a single to twin wall adaptor inside the boat, with a length of twin wall insulated flue penetrating the roof (for safety) and outside up to the desired height. That way I got maximum radiant heat into the saloon but the external portion wasn't chilled by the frosty winter air that would have reduced the draw.

 

I believe that the stove is rated at about 74% efficient or some such figure, so only a quarter of the heat of combustion actually escapes up the chimney which is remarkable in my opinion.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I worked out the surface area of the stove, and then worked out the surface area of the flue and they were pretty much the same.

If you go for an insulated flue you will be losing around 50% of the heat that is being produced by the fire by sending it 'up the chimney' to heat the outside world.

 

Use a standard single-skin flue the same as tens of thousands of other boaters do,

Thanks.  Single skin flue it is. I was looking at the Soliftec guide and it says insulated flue pipe so wanted to see if it is really necessary. 

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11 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

Flue design depends on a number of things, the end result being the correct amount of draw (suction) at the stove for correct operation.

 

I expect Morso will specify a minimum length of flue above the stove to achieve the minimum advisable draw, a length that you may struggle to achieve. Most boat owners just do the best that they can and keep their fingers crossed and for most people it seems to work.

 

One insulates the flue to maximise the draw which may already be compromised by too short a length. Once again, many don't bother and get away with it.

 

I've used Squirrel stoves with short flues on boats and long flues in houses and there is a substantial difference in performance, but they both work okay.

 

What I did was to have a standard single walled flue pipe topped with a single to twin wall adaptor inside the boat, with a length of twin wall insulated flue penetrating the roof (for safety) and outside up to the desired height. That way I got maximum radiant heat into the saloon but the external portion wasn't chilled by the frosty winter air that would have reduced the draw.

 

I believe that the stove is rated at about 74% efficient or some such figure, so only a quarter of the heat of combustion actually escapes up the chimney which is remarkable in my opinion.

 

 

That makes great sense and something I will definitely look at doing. I’m very new narrowboating and everything that goes with it, but want to try to do as much of the work ourselves as we can. The 1412 is being delivered on Monday - yay, I can’t wait to see it in the flesh. I want to be as prepared and knowledgeable as possible before attempting. So single walled flu with a twin adapter with a length of insulated (huge) flue going out the roof?  Sounds good. 

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2 hours ago, LadyR said:

I have another question if that’s ok. I have decided to go with the Morso 1412, because it’s defra approved and should the boat ever make it into a smokeless zone all will be good.

The clean air legislation that created smokeless zones specifically exempts boats, so you don't need to worry.

 

That said, smoke from boat stoves has been a source of annoyance to waterside land dwellers, so in the interest of good neighbourliness it would be better to use smokeless fuel on your stove when in urban areas.

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53 minutes ago, David Mack said:

in the interest of good neighbourliness it would be better to use smokeless fuel on your stove when in urban areas.

Since bagged house coal (not smokeless) has been banned, you'd struggle to find anything but smokeless fuel to burn.

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23 hours ago, Bargebuilder said:

Since bagged house coal (not smokeless) has been banned, you'd struggle to find anything but smokeless fuel to burn.

Wet logs (or perhaps oily rags, dead badgers or similar) seem to be quite common from my observations...

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Just a couple of things that I found. We gave up burning wood. It makes tar, is not so easily controllable, is hard to keep in overnight and you need at least 3 trees each winter. Also, sometime over the winter, probably on the coldest night of the year, the diesel heater will pack up and will take at least a fortnight to mend (At some expense)  If you put the stove in the middle of the boat and it has a back boiler it is easier to get an effective 'Thermosyphon' effect to circulate hot water to rads. This is just a heating system that needs no electric pump and stuff. If the stove is right at the front at the highest point it can be a bit awkward to get it to work.

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One of the boats I hired in the late 1970's had a gas boiler providing gravity circulation. When I installed my own central heating (it was during the energy crisis,  3 day week, days of the mid-1970's) I designed it so it would work without the pump if the mains failed (the boiler would have beren operable from 24V from batteries).  You need to use 22mm pipe rather than small bore, connect the hot water input to valves at the tops of each rad and the cold returns to the bottom, and use slow bends wherever possible rather than short right-angle bends to minimise  flow resistance. Slow bends seem to be difficult to find these days, so a pipe bender might be needed. 

 

 

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

Wet logs (or perhaps oily rags, dead badgers or similar) seem to be quite common from my observations...

 

From the smell of the smoke emitting from a boat moored near me last winter, I think they had found a way of accelerating the composting for the toilet... 😣

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I replaced my Morso which was worn and cracked with a boatman made by Eddie in Farnworth a couple of years ago. It is a very good stove, slightly smaller than the Morso but more than equal to it for heat output. It gets hot quicker as well. 

I am a great fan of it and wouldn't buy another Morso instead of a boatman if I needed another stove.

Also Eddie is a great bloke to deal with. We only live around the M60 from his workshop so picked it up off him and had a good natter about the stoves while we were there.

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21 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

Wet logs (or perhaps oily rags, dead badgers or similar) seem to be quite common from my observations...

People will get wood from the towpath from fallen trees etc but a narrow boat isn't the place to store and season a lot of logs so they burn it only part seasoned. 

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28 minutes ago, CompairHolman said:

People will get wood from the towpath from fallen trees etc but a narrow boat isn't the place to store and season a lot of logs so they burn it only part seasoned. 

They do indeed, which may affect no-one else in some locations, but it affects us all when it's done inconsiderately and the "No Mooring" signs begin to appear. :(

 

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On 04/08/2021 at 20:05, Bargebuilder said:

Since bagged house coal (not smokeless) has been banned, you'd struggle to find anything but smokeless fuel to burn.

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Indeed - our little Faversham now burns crackle-wick candles - still enough heat to keep a cuppa warm :)

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