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Battery charging / warning light on volt reading on panel


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10 days or so we had problem with atm starter battery ... the reading on management panel showed well over 12v in battery but when key turned no reaction at all

We have 2 isolator switches for each set of batteries .... turns out panel reading I correct / isolator switch lit up so all looked good

Turned out the main isolator had turned it self of and for the last who know how many days we had been using the remaining power in battery to start.  

Once sorted the battery was still taking charge but not holding charge

Engineer only had lead acid battery  on van .

Our system is a twin alternator and spit  charge using  smart bank system

Yesterday we  ran engine for a total of approx 6 hours and when we came to stop it did not cut engine immediately on pushing stop button

Today same problem with stop button but the volt reader showed red warning light.  Reading was showing high

 

Do you think it is a problem because we are currently mixing lead acid on starter and agm  on domestic or do you think they could be another underlying problem.

 

Many thanks in advance

 

 

 

 

 

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It should not be a battery type mixing issue, but I am struggling to understand what you have/.

 

Two isolators per bank is not normal.

 

Isolator switch lit up???

 

What is the volt reader with the red light.

 

We need to know the voltage on both battery banks with the engine revving? It sounds as if the contactor (relay) associated with the split charge system has failed so the start battery i snot receiving any charge but we rally need to know which bank the alternator feed runs to.

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Volt reading was just short of 16 on gauge

You can isolate domestic and starter batteries using switches on panel or using in switches in engine bay

Starts charging 14.2 and both gradually go up to 14.7 and 14.8 readings as both banks become fully charged

Engine been off for nearly 2 hours .. domestic reading 13 and starter 13.3 on panel

Slightly less on readings directly from batteries

 

I stopped it by putting itt in to neutral and after a few attempts it stopped with button... i.e. when no revs... Volt reading dropped and able to stop

 

Checked relay for engine circuit and all looks good

 

This may be totally irrelevant but when the boat was built 15 years ago we had  a problem where we went through 6  lots of lead/acid in 6 months (it was boiling every lot and we had acid everwhere)

They could never work out why and gave us agm batteries and u til now we have never had a lead/acid on the boat.

 

Thank you

 

20210721_172935.jpg

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First of all, those two panel switches marked isolators are no such thing. They are not large enough. All they can do is operate remote heavy-duty switches, so you could well have a problem with one of those.

 

Maybe your other set of isolators are those heavy-duty switches or independent isolators. If they have a plastic key in them, then they will be suspect.

 

All the Smartbank can do on a twin alternator boat is to parallel the two alternators while charging so as your voltmeters shows both banks seem to be charging and charging well (unless its solar voltage).

 

If it's just the stop that is causing you problems, it could be the stop button or the stop solenoid on the engine.

 

Do you have solar?

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It is the solenoid that has failed, or is failing.

Those two switches are built into a USA RV isolator controller panel which is now obsolete, the upgrade will not fit your switch holes.

If you open that complete panel , you will seen 3 solenoids on the left hand side. One for domestic, one for starter, and one for bow thruster charging. It's usually the middle one which is the starter solenoid.

All the switches on the panel do is operate the solenoids. The replacement solenoid HAS to be the correct type On/Off/On , not just an On/Off solenoid. 

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A Complicated wiring system, did the "engineer" not understand it and explain it to you?

 

You unresolved history of overcharging and destroying batteries begins to sound frightening, H2S gas from boiling batteries is highly toxic.

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6 minutes ago, matty40s said:

It is the solenoid that has failed, or is failing.

Those two switches are built into a USA RV isolator controller panel which is now obsolete, the upgrade will not fit your switch holes.

If you open that complete panel , you will seen 3 solenoids on the left hand side. One for domestic, one for starter, and one for bow thruster charging. It's usually the middle one which is the starter solenoid.

All the switches on the panel do is operate the solenoids. The replacement solenoid HAS to be the correct type On/Off/On , not just an On/Off solenoid. 

Your intimate and valued knowledge of these systems will be important in solving this failure i predict.

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15 years old. Would this have a Beta engine? If so I think 15 years ago they may have been fitting external alternator controllers that did boil batteries and then a bit later they supplied alternators with 14.7 V regulator that again boiled batteries under certain circumstances. If it's not Beta, ignore this.

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Tracy.  We had every specialised engineer going trying to sort it to no avail.  I always maintain it was all down to overcharging but 15 years of agm  and no problems. Our domestic are over 4 years and still charging well and starter was over 7 years.  It just seems funny  that for the 1st time I  15 years we have a lead acid starter and we have problems.

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6 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Your intimate and valued knowledge of these systems will be important in solving this failure i predict.

Everybody always raves on about how super Aqualine electrical systems are, ...its bolleaux, they are over complicated and have too many things that can fail.

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9 minutes ago, tagulablue said:

Tracy.  We had every specialised engineer going trying to sort it to no avail.  I always maintain it was all down to overcharging but 15 years of agm  and no problems. Our domestic are over 4 years and still charging well and starter was over 7 years.  It just seems funny  that for the 1st time I  15 years we have a lead acid starter and we have problems.

I can't see the difference between agm and fla being the key. If anything the agm need a lower charge voltage than fla.

 

The explanation about the contactor ( relay, solenoid, call it what you may ) sounds perfectly feasible.  Best of luck finding parts, some of that USA gear is very hard to find. I recently had troubles sourcing a heating unit for a USA RV.

 

Overly complicated systems have no place on a boat in my opinion, the KISS principle should be followed.

Edited by Tracy D'arth
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3 minutes ago, tagulablue said:

Tracy.  We had every specialised engineer going trying to sort it to no avail.  I always maintain it was all down to overcharging but 15 years of agm  and no problems. Our domestic are over 4 years and still charging well and starter was over 7 years.  It just seems funny  that for the 1st time I  15 years we have a lead acid starter and we have problems.

 

If it was over voltage charging then fitting SOME AGMs could have made the problem worse because although many benefit from an elevated charging voltage these days, some may still require around 13.8 volts.

 

Lead antinomy batteries will start to gas at around 14.2 to 14.4 volts, but as long as you keep them topped up (so open cell batteries) all will be well, even to 14.5 volts. Most modern batteries are lead calcium and they will go to about 14.7V before gassing and that should be plenty for most AGMs, although one supplier has a different view that they refuse to justify. It's the charging voltage that is important, and we can infer from your voltage readings they are likely to be OK for both types of battery.

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5 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Everybody always raves on about how super Aqualine electrical systems are, ...its bolleaux, they are over complicated and have too many things that can fail.

I was trying to avoid saying that...........................................

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Tony Isuzu 42 engine

Matty . I know that a lot of engineers agree with you but as an 'idiot' I find it easy to use with the trip switches and relays.   

We are in Kerridge dry dock from tomorrow ... is there an engineer you would recommend?

Thank you

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Thank you  Matty. Rang Ed today and he was supposed to be on holiday but had postponed until weather cooled down. He came out within an hour and diagnosed a faulty isolator switch plus smartbank wasn't working. Replaced it and said we need to test when out of dry dock.  If all ok he will either send invoice or come back .  We were that impressed we ordered his solar package at the same time. It turned out he remembers working on the boat 14 years ago when he worked at Streethay. He even remembered what our problem and what he did to fix it!  Once again, thank you Matty 

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32 minutes ago, tagulablue said:

Thank you  Matty. Rang Ed today and he was supposed to be on holiday but had postponed until weather cooled down. He came out within an hour and diagnosed a faulty isolator switch plus smartbank wasn't working. Replaced it and said we need to test when out of dry dock.  If all ok he will either send invoice or come back .  We were that impressed we ordered his solar package at the same time. It turned out he remembers working on the boat 14 years ago when he worked at Streethay. He even remembered what our problem and what he did to fix it!  Once again, thank you Matty 

Excellent. Its good to here of a professional fixing a problem without teeth sucking and kidology.  Ed is well known for his straight forward dealing manner.

Nice dock Kerridge, Ged is a sound guy too. They may even get round to finishing that boat hull outside one day. Its a shame John Jackson died this year, he was another good straight guy.

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