Jump to content

It's a great time to be a Signal Crayfish


Featured Posts

4 hours ago, tree monkey said:

I'm not suggesting the OP is an idiot, just pointing out the licence system was created with all the right intentions 

Which is precisely why I made a proper formal application with all the considerable detail required rather than ignoring the system. I just feel a little easing of the restrictions right now would be sensible for all concerned.

 

Glad you don't think I'm an idiot BTW. 🤨

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, matty40s said:

Quite right, just dont take the letter with you when you go catching nice to eat things....

Lol, indeed!

 

To be honest I'm rather going off the idea for some reason. Perhaps I'll just get a pack of sausages from Sainsbury's and BBQ them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, Jerra said:

As I understand it the licence is a backhanded way of gathering data about prevalance, distribution, etc

You may well be right, I have to say it was a pretty detailed application. 

 

The two main thrusts being that proper grid references were required of where you would be fishing. This was apparently to ensure you were not operating in conservation areas known to still contain white claw crayfish but I also suspect it was, as you say to monitor the invasive signal crayfish population. The other was to ensure the trap was the correct size, they wanted mesh size, overall dimensions but most most crucially the aperture diameter so otters would not get trapped. There have been horror stories where otters have been found stuck in home made traps with half their faces eaten by the already captured crayfish. 

 

I suspect the IA find it difficult in the present climate to issue licences because it’s not just an emailed licence, they also issue special licence tags to attach to nets etc. This would clearly be difficult to do with staff working at home but surely it’s an aspect that could dispense with until the pandemic issues ease and in the meantime email out licences once they were satisfied with the above mentioned criteria. The IA seem to be a pretty tech savvy bunch. As an example I even had to add my digital signature to the application form, it was pretty well designed in technical terms I have to say.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Withywindle said:

There have been horror stories where otters have been found stuck in home made traps with half their faces eaten by the already captured crayfish. 

 

Poor lickle cuddly furry otters, nasty snappy crayfish.

You could regard it as payback for all the otters that have eaten away half the faces of fish.

 

Conservation should mean taking care of all wild species, and a dispassionate balance is always necessary.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, tree monkey said:

Funnily enough I saw one on the path this morning, just sat there, no damage.

 

Anyway apart from the frustration the issue with trying to have a licence the policy is trying to stop idiots transferring crayfish and the disease they carry to waters without them.

 

I'm not suggesting the OP is an idiot, just pointing out the licence system was created with all the right intentions 

 

Here you go

https://theconversation.com/invasive-species-why-britain-cant-eat-its-way-out-of-its-crayfish-problem-147961

 

Good idea, no money to enforce, typical for this country where invasive species are concerned 

The licensing scheme is also there to prevent people turning up with nets under the guise of taking crayfish when other species are the real target.

  • Greenie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mind you, there must be plenty of examples of still-extant legislation that are no longer rigidly enforced. I believe it is still a legal requirement to report any sightings of grey squirrels to the  police, and to kill any grey squirrel that you happen to catch, it being illegal to release greys into the wild. There was a news story on the BBC some months ago about someone who had opened a hospital for treating sick and injured grey squirrels, and how they had had to get a special licence to operate. No doubt this was to circumvent the unrepealed legal obligation to kill them and to legally allow them to be released once cured.  

Edited by Ronaldo47
typos
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Ronaldo47 said:

Mind you, there must be plenty of examples of still-extant legislation that are no longer rigidly enforced. I believe it is still a legal requirement to report any sightings of grey squirrels to the  police, and to kill any grey squirrel that you happen to catch, it being illegal to release greys into the wild. There was a news story on the BBC some months ago about someone who had opened a hospital for treating sick and injured grey squirrels, and how they had had to get a special licence to operate. No doubt this was to circumvent the unrepealed legal obligation to kill them and to legally allow them to be released once cured.  

The grey squirrel legislation is still sensible tbh they cause a massive amount of damage to our native and forestry plantations, they also predate birds nests to a small degree.

The advantage the greys have is cuteness, kill a squirrel and people get upset, eat a crayfish and no one bats an eyelid 

  • Greenie 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just wonder what the reaction of the police would be today if I rang them (the only practical option since the local cop shop was sold for housing) to say I had seen a grey squirrel in our local park!  The legislation made sense in the 1950's when greys were confined to relatively small areas. 

Edited by Ronaldo47
typos, 1950's comment added
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Ronaldo47 said:

I just wonder what the reaction of the police would be today if I rang them (the only practical option since the local cop shop was sold for housing) to say I had seen a grey squirrel in our local park!  

Obviously they would call in the specially trained squiz squad in their chaingun armed helicopter and sweep the area  clean

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

@Withywindle, beware. The Environment Agency was taken over by Signal Crayfish while many of the human employees were on furlough, or working from home. This is why they don't issue any licenses to catch signal crayfish, If you apply for one though, the crayfish now have your name and address. Don't answer the front door to any one showing an EA identity card. Especially if you can see visible antennae. Run out the back door and head for the wilds. It is your only chance.

OMG he's just turned up! 😟1146041916_IAInspector.png.d88a7b9b4fc6e56d9dbeb7402a1fbe47.png

  • Greenie 1
  • Haha 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

Obviously they would call in the specially trained squiz squad in their chaingun armed helicopter and sweep the area  clean

In our area it is the local red squirrel support group which employs rangers who deal with reported greys.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 22/07/2021 at 11:38, Machpoint005 said:

 

Poor lickle cuddly furry otters, nasty snappy crayfish.

You could regard it as payback for all the otters that have eaten away half the faces of fish.

 

Conservation should mean taking care of all wild species, and a dispassionate balance is always necessary.

 

 

Otters on our pound have taken all but a couple of this years ducklings, and the normally resident swans are keeping clear. This is one of the bigger mistakes in trying to re introduce species and i don't think it will end well for the otters as waterways and fisheries are emptied.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, BWM said:

Otters on our pound have taken all but a couple of this years ducklings, and the normally resident swans are keeping clear. This is one of the bigger mistakes in trying to re introduce species and i don't think it will end well for the otters as waterways and fisheries are emptied.

But they won't empty, an equilibrium will be reached, anyway in most cases otter are just replacing mink as the predator. 

A healthy ecosystem needs predators,  if the system is so knife edge the introduction of a native predator causes a massive crash, its likely the system was stuffed anyway and instead of blaming the native species the whole system needs to be addressed 

  • Greenie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

But they won't empty, an equilibrium will be reached, anyway in most cases otter are just replacing mink as the predator. 

A healthy ecosystem needs predators,  if the system is so knife edge the introduction of a native predator causes a massive crash, its likely the system was stuffed anyway and instead of blaming the native species the whole system needs to be addressed 

My comment is based on the fact that the ecosystem is badly damaged and the release of such a predator is completely irresponsible because it will potentially take these struggling waterways past the point of recovery - what's the point of installing migration ladders, etc., to aid the recovery of existing runs of salmon and sea trout when they will quickly be eradicated by this near extinct predator? 

 It would be far more help to the natural world if more energy was invested in the prosecution of those targeting raptors and other persecuted species - along with serious legislation and enforcement of effluent and bad agricultural practice, the latter would have ensured the recovery of the waterways which would have eventually led to a more gradual return of the otter. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, BWM said:

My comment is based on the fact that the ecosystem is badly damaged and the release of such a predator is completely irresponsible because it will potentially take these struggling waterways past the point of recovery - what's the point of installing migration ladders, etc., to aid the recovery of existing runs of salmon and sea trout when they will quickly be eradicated by this near extinct predator? 

 It would be far more help to the natural world if more energy was invested in the prosecution of those targeting raptors and other persecuted species - along with serious legislation and enforcement of effluent and bad agricultural practice, the latter would have ensured the recovery of the waterways which would have eventually led to a more gradual return of the otter. 

I'm with you on many points, pollution etc 100% yes and it is a big problem the degradation of the systems that exist that make them vulnerable to catastrophic collapse but natural systems work better with predators, especially if the system has evolved with that predator.

In fact the current success of the otter suggests the various habitats are fairly robust otherwise the otters would have failed, there has to be prey for the predators to survive.

The issue with Salmon and other migratory species is much bigger than a few otters returning back to their native habitats, we have been releasing salmon fry into streams for years now in the hope they would bounce back..

There is an argument for tempary control of some prey species when managing for a specific species but I'm not convinced its application for otters and 100% against it for shooting estates.

 

Have we had this discussion before?

  • Greenie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The EA have been great for me lately. Queried re licence for introduction of stocking of  (native) species ( true strain crucian carp) in our pond  and the EA responded straight away, put me in contact with local EA inspector. He site visited, took water samples and produced a written report for me including stocking density. All free.

Edited by mark99
  • Greenie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, mark99 said:

The EA have been great for me lately. Queried re licence for introduction of stocking of  (native) species ( true strain crucian carp) in our pond  and the EA responded straight away, put me in contact with local EA inspector. He site visited, took water samples and produced a written report for me including stocking density. All free.

I never said that having Signal Crayfish in charge of the EA was a bad thing. They are clearly organising it better than the human management did. Wonder if they could take over CaRT too?

Edited by Jen-in-Wellies
  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

I never said that having Signal Crayfish in charge of the EA was a bad thing. They are clearly organising it better than the human management did. Wonder if they could take over CaRT too?

He did have a white claw.

  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, tree monkey said:

I'm with you on many points, pollution etc 100% yes and it is a big problem the degradation of the systems that exist that make them vulnerable to catastrophic collapse but natural systems work better with predators, especially if the system has evolved with that predator.

In fact the current success of the otter suggests the various habitats are fairly robust otherwise the otters would have failed, there has to be prey for the predators to survive.

The issue with Salmon and other migratory species is much bigger than a few otters returning back to their native habitats, we have been releasing salmon fry into streams for years now in the hope they would bounce back..

There is an argument for tempary control of some prey species when managing for a specific species but I'm not convinced its application for otters and 100% against it for shooting estates.

 

Have we had this discussion before?

Not this exact discussion but along similar lines. I have no time for shooting estates culling for their convenience or the outrageous badger cull, which has no purpose other than allowing those who shoot and trap another outlet for their fetish - having been proved time and again that transmission is from bovine to wildlife and that removal of resident badgers encourages movement of others.

 As regards predatory species, they are of course essential and as someone who grew up around newly dug gravel pits it was invariably perch, followed by pike that colonised those before they were taken on by clubs - that said, both of these are cannibalistic so can maintain a population.

  This process isn't one that otters can emulate - don't get me wrong, they are a glorious sight but i feel the enhancing of their numbers is a mistake that puts pressure on an already struggling environment and it would be a shame to see them disappear again. We already have an extinction rate that puts muxh of the world in the shade!

Edited by BWM
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.