😂 how often is this excuse used then

[jetzi]

I hate being shouted at when I'm having a relaxing boat trip, so I always drop down to tickover at least a boat length's away from the moorer even though I think it's faintly ridiculous. I still got shouted at every now and then at tickover, but I'm not going to drop out of gear, that's asking too much I feel. After I installed a hospital silencer I haven't been shouted at yet, so I reckon it's mostly about perception, innit?

 

When the shoe's on the other foot. I've been passed by boats at full ahead at least once or twice a week. My boat rocks a bit. Who cares? Why that would bother anyone enough to abuse someone is absolutely beyond me. My only guess is that it's people looking for any excuse for a whinge, and the speeder has broken etiquette (though not any of the moorer's dinner plates) so they are fair game. Worst that's happened, I've had my pins pulled out once or twice, and you know what, mea culpa for not mooring up properly. In soft banks I put two pins in in a cross fashion, and those have never failed. Don't even really know what springs are, never needed them.

 

Benefit of the doubt to the moaners though, this is the only boat I've ever experienced. Maybe it's just that I have an unusually stable boat (65' Black Prince ex hire boat?). So as I say, I follow the "tickover rule". Maybe, just maybe, if you pass some boats at 2.1mph the spices come flying off the spice rack, pots and pans come crashing to the floor, and the cat has to dive for cover under the couch. So for me it's tickover in all conditions and a friendly wave.

Edited July 21, 2021 by jetzi

[bigcol]

Jetzi 

 

Top banana, !!!  a True star

a light hearted but sensible out look on the post

a star for you from the world of Canalworld.net

 

thankyou

[Alan de Enfield]

20 minutes ago, bigcol said:

.............being here for nearly 12 years, and we.over the years the community here are always tying up peaples boats,

 

Does that not suggest that your neighbours have not yet learned how to tie up properly ?

 

Maybe you could give lessons using your methods with spring lines etc ?

[doratheexplorer]

I get perplexed by members on here often harping about spring lines.  I've never needed them and I've only ever seen them used on a canal once and that boat had created quite the trip hazard for themselves and others.  Typically, on narrowboats, the dollies and t-posts are awkwardly positioned for springs anyway.  2 lines, fore and aft at 45 degrees is all you ever need.

Edited July 21, 2021 by doratheexplorer

[jetzi]

16 minutes ago, bigcol said:

top banana, !!!  a True star

a light hearted but sensible out look on the post

a star for you from the world of Canalworld.net

 

thankyou

 

I don't mean offence bigcol. Maybe you could help me understand why its an issue when someone passes too fast?

 

 

  

1 minute ago, doratheexplorer said:

I get perplexed my member on here often harping about spring lines.  I've never needed them and I've only ever seen them used on a canal once and that boat had created quite the trip hazard for themselves and others.  Typically, on narrowboats, the dollies and t-posts are awkwardly positioned for springs anyway.  2 lines, fore and aft at 45 degrees is all you ever need.

Agree, my limited understanding is that you need a lot more rope than I have. When I replace my ropes I'll get enough to give springs a go. Always nice to have another tool in your belt.

 

When I was learning to tie up there were two major things that helped. The first is to put the pins in at an angle leaning away from the boat. The second is that 45 degrees really means 45 degrees. If, due to the location of rings or bollards, the angle is much steeper or shallower than that, the boat doesn't stay anywhere near as stable. So I've taken to using a mooring pin (or nappy pin) at one end of the boat even when there are rings available (and I use a ring for the other end), in order to get my lines as close to 45 degrees as possible. Doubtless that strategy annoys someone as well (maybe CaRT), but so far no one has shouted!

[nicknorman]

22 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

I get perplexed by members on here often harping about spring lines.  I've never needed them and I've only ever seen them used on a canal once and that boat had created quite the trip hazard for themselves and others.  Typically, on narrowboats, the dollies and t-posts are awkwardly positioned for springs anyway.  2 lines, fore and aft at 45 degrees is all you ever need.

Springs are useful when you tie up to rings or bollards that are inevitably wrongly spaced. If the lines are coming in nearly at right angles, they can’t be expected to effectively resist the fore and aft pull which is the main and virtually only force arising from a boat passing. Boats mostly only rock when being passed because the fore and aft pull transferred onto lines nearly or at right angles attached to the boat well above the centre of gravity causes it to roll.

 

So if we are constrained by bollards or rings at right angles, we tie the stern so that the aft line is at an angle to one bollard/ring AND to a line at the opposite angle to another bollard/ring. This locates the stern in the fore/aft direction as well as keeping it in. We then put a line from the bow to the nearest bollard/ring just to keep it against the bank, not to resist the fore/aft movement. Or could be the other way round if the main ingress/egress is at the stern.

 

Consequently I cannot remember ever having felt the need to shout “slow down”.

 

I would say that 50% of moored boats we pass either on pins or to piling (where you can choose your own position to attach the lines) are at or very close to 90 degrees. And quite a few tied to the roof-mounted centre line as well. No wonder their boats rock badly at the slightest hint of a passing boat. Some people, in fact many people it seems, really have absolutely no idea how to operate and tie up their boats. I have no sympathy for incompetence.

 

So it’s interesting that both Jetzi and I are expounding the 45 degree thing, and neither of us has an issue with passing boats. Seems pretty clear to me…

Edited July 21, 2021 by nicknorman

[bigcol]

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Does that not suggest that your neighbours have not yet learned how to tie up properly ?

 

Maybe you could give lessons using your methods with spring lines etc ?

Hi Alan

 

lol they all do know how to tie up, it’s not us Alan

 

its the speeds that some boats come down here just some

mainly drop their speed, nearly all are happy always giving folks a aware.

 

but we’re talking excessive speeds Alan !!

Just a minority, but leaving a a sizeable wake behind them

leaving boats bouncing for quite a while

many a time when folks have complained, it’s always been stressed the reason is bag tieing  up.

No but you can’t blame the boaters that are moored, it’s about the minority of boaters,  especially last week that speed.

 

Last Sunday, some mates including yours truely, were shouting at,we had to shout, he was going fasssssttttt, a wake you could ski on!!

he was

so fast it was someway that he realised he was being shouted at. We were lol, shoulting he’s left he’s skier behind at him, pointing at the wake behind the boat

he couldn’t  hear us  over his wake, whoosh, and slapping, but he did pulled over to the CRT side, he was finding it difficult to get off because of the movement caused by his speed.

 

totally oblivious, totaly thick!! That he wasn’t aware of his surroundings.

😂 😂 

 

a few boaters wear ear/headphones whilst motoring

I thinks it somthing to do with the engine Rev noise 😂 😂 

or maybe it’s us silly Pratt’s all tied up wrong!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Top banana, !!!  a True star

a light hearted but sensible out look on the post

a star for you from the world of Canalworld.net

 

thankyou

[bigcol]

25 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

I get perplexed by members on here often harping about spring lines.  I've never needed them and I've only ever seen them used on a canal once and that boat had created quite the trip hazard for themselves and others.  Typically, on narrowboats, the dollies and t-posts are awkwardly positioned for springs anyway.  2 lines, fore and aft at 45 degrees is all you ever need.

Hi there

 

your lucky here in sunny MK, not far from a very well known hire centre, and 2 pubs

yep it does help, and sort the problem.

normally used all over the world, for and on tidal waters. Rivers coastal areas

but used on canals to keep your neighbours boats safe and off course your boat.

just had a hire boat pass, youngsters, friendly, obviously enjoying the waterways

slow as you like,youngsters our future is safe.

 

[IanD]

As well as using lines at 45 degrees, if using pins it's always worth using 2 at each end, preferably ones with loops in, and don't knock them in vertically. Knock the first one in leaning away from from the canal at right-angles to it, then put the second one through the loop of the first one and knock it in leaning away from the boat parallel with the canal, then put the rope through both eyes (but going behind the pins) and tie it back on the boat. If you look at this from above the pins and the rope would look like an arrowhead (if the ground was see-through), with the first pin at right-angles to the canal, the second pin parallel to it, and the rope at 45 degrees in between them.

 

This not only doubles the pull-out load but also stops the pins pulling out if the ground is at all soft, each pin can't just pull out of its hole lengthways (which happens because the rope runs upwards to the boat studs) because the other pin would have to be pulled out sideways.

 

I do this when mooring next to any soft grassy bank -- or even a harder one -- and I've never had them pull out, even with speedboats passing 😉

Edited July 21, 2021 by IanD

[doratheexplorer]

2 hours ago, bigcol said:

Hi there

 

your lucky here in sunny MK, not far from a very well known hire centre, and 2 pubs

yep it does help, and sort the problem.

normally used all over the world, for and on tidal waters. Rivers coastal areas

but used on canals to keep your neighbours boats safe and off course your boat.

just had a hire boat pass, youngsters, friendly, obviously enjoying the waterways

slow as you like,youngsters our future is safe.

 

I spent a nice few weeks moored in Milton Keynes a while back.  Didn't have any issues.  The boats go fairly fast, but not as fast as they do south of Leighton Buzzard.  But the GU in MK is wide and deep so surging is minimal.  Go and moor on a very narrow and shallow canal, with steeply shelving sides, and you'll soon see how lucky you've got it.  Fast moving boats there will take all the water from under you and leave you lurching sideways as your boat momentarily sits on the canal bottom.  No amount of springs is gonna do a thing about it. 

[GUMPY]

You don't need to mess around with double pins if you have decent mooring pins, mine are just under a metre long and I knock them right in. Takes a bit of getting in and out but a 7lb sledge usually does it 😱

[doratheexplorer]

1 minute ago, Loddon said:

You don't need to mess around with double pins if you have decent mooring pins, mine are just under a metre long and I knock them right in. Takes a bit of getting in and out but a 7lb sledge usually does it 😱

Until you moor in a place with solid rock 18" below the surface.

[GUMPY]

16 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

Until you moor in a place with solid rock 18" below the surface.

Not happened to me in 50 years, if ever I have hit something hard I've just moved the stake a foot or so and it's gone right in.

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Not happened to me in 50 years, if ever I have hit something hard I've just moved the stake a foot or so and it's gone right in.

 

Those concrete ducts holding the HV cables don't offer much resistance to a good spike and a 14lb mallet.

[IanD]

32 minutes ago, Loddon said:

You don't need to mess around with double pins if you have decent mooring pins, mine are just under a metre long and I knock them right in. Takes a bit of getting in and out but a 7lb sledge usually does it 😱

Maybe, but the problem with a single straight pin is it can always be pulled out with tension in the right direction, otherwise you'd never be able to remove it, and a rope sloping upwards to the boat has a tendency to do this especially with repeated pulls from multiple passing boats. Two crossed pins stops this happening, and you don't need a 7lb sledge or as much effort or have as much difficulty with buried hard stuff or having to keep trying different places to avoid this.

 

So less messing around, not more 😉

 

An incidental bonus is that it also makes it much more difficult for oiks to pull your pins out, unless they're willing to climb onto the boat, detach the rope and unthread it from the pins -- a single pin usually comes loose enough to pull out with a couple of kicks and some pulling backwards and forwards. Yes I've has this happen with single pins... 😞

Edited July 21, 2021 by IanD

[bigcol]

8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Those concrete ducts holding the HV cables don't offer much resistance to a good spike and a 14lb mallet.

😂 😂 😂 😂 

 

luving it!!lol 😂 

[nb Innisfree]

We were moored on the K&A over the Xmas period 2007, when I asked boats to slow down a bit they did so but a couple commented on not mooring properly, this was despite the fact we had 6 pins in, they were unaware that the ground was too soft due to unprecedented wet weather. Don't assume it's always down to bad mooring

[David Schweizer]

6 hours ago, Idle Days said:

 

 

Our Colecraft will do that and I don't think it is fitted with "swims"; whatever they are. 

 

 

All boats have swims. They are not fitted, but are part of the hull design. Basicly the swim is that part of the underwater hull between the pointed bit and where that hull is full width, one at the back , and one at the front. The following photos illustrate the swims. The first photo shows the forward swim which extends from the bow to where the three hull guard irons end The second photo shows the rear end swim, which extends from the propeller to the middle guard iron end.

 

 

 

Edited July 21, 2021 by David Schweizer

[jetzi]

4 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

The first photo shows the forward swim which extends from the bow to where the three hull guard irons end

oh, didn't know the front bit was also called a swim. I thought it was specifically the tapered bit under the counter. Learn something every day!

[GUMPY]

43 minutes ago, IanD said:

Maybe, but the problem with a single straight pin is it can always be pulled out with tension in the right direction, otherwise you'd never be able to remove it, and a rope sloping upwards to the boat has a tendency to do this especially with repeated pulls from multiple passing boats.

The only direction you can pull them out is the opposite direction to the one they went in, i.e along the line of the pin and then only after you have knocked them in 4 directions NSEW to losen them.

The chances of them being pulled out by a ninety degree force are very close to zero. I did once forget to remove one and even 38tonnes of barge pulling away didn't shift it.

[jetzi]

3 hours ago, IanD said:

As well as using lines at 45 degrees, if using pins it's always worth using 2 at each end, preferably ones with loops in, and don't knock them in vertically. Knock the first one in leaning away from from the canal at right-angles to it, then put the second one through the loop of the first one and knock it in leaning away from the boat parallel with the canal, then put the rope through both eyes (but going behind the pins) and tie it back on the boat. If you look at this from above the pins and the rope would look like an arrowhead (if the ground was see-through), with the first pin at right-angles to the canal, the second pin parallel to it, and the rope at 45 degrees in between them.

 

This not only doubles the pull-out load but also stops the pins pulling out if the ground is at all soft, each pin can't just pull out of its hole lengthways (which happens because the rope runs upwards to the boat studs) because the other pin would have to be pulled out sideways.

 

I do this when mooring next to any soft grassy bank -- or even a harder one -- and I've never had them pull out, even with speedboats passing 😉

 

I have 2x 3' pins and 4x 2' pins.

 

I use long pins or crossed short pins if the ground is at all soft, if I'm leaving the boat, if we are anywhere dangerous like a river or near a weir or a lock, or if I hit something hard.

Can't be bothered though in general. Most times I use one short pin at each end. In the unlikely event a pin pulls out... maybe the boat will bump something...?

 

The stakes are really not that high. Pun absolutely intended.

[Ex Brummie]

Some people just like moaning as has already been said. I was once shouted at on the T&M by a boater coming from the opposite direction, also moving!!!!

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, Ex Brummie said:

I was once shouted at on the T&M by a boater coming from the opposite direction, also moving!!!!

 

That is understandable - you were approaching him at 6 to 8 mph (far too fast)

[Ex Brummie]

6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

That is understandable - you were approaching him at 6 to 8 mph (far too fast)

On the T&M just south of Wolseley Bridge? I should be so lucky as to be able to achieve such velocity. He was a 30' Springer and probably travelling at 1 1/2 times my speed.

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, Ex Brummie said:

On the T&M just south of Wolseley Bridge? I should be so lucky as to be able to achieve such velocity. He was a 30' Springer and probably travelling at 1 1/2 times my speed.

 

I'm wasted here ....................

 

(say) you were doing 4mph and he was doing 4mph the closing speed was 8mph YOU WERE APPROACHING HIM AT 8 mph