Are boat hirer company’s responsible?

[bigcol]

I would think if a stream caused by flooding is heaping along at 5+ knots

and your boat max is 4 knots

would it not be irresponsible to send a hirer boat out in that.

if the boat hits  another boat, or indeed crashes into bridge, or destroys a swans nest in the same circumstances a boat owner will be classed as silly and brought to task

but a hirer on a hire boat, is is it the hirer, or hire company?

 

I think police CRT enforcers or CRT staff should have the powers to bring boat owners, boat hirers and boat hire companies to task, for any enfrigment of the CRT rules, including cyclists. 
 

and that being moored on the tow path is a diferent story

 

and yes I’m on one to day, as nearly everyone on a hire boat has been a Pratt, except a small minority that have been excelent!!

but getting sick of hiring companies hiring boaters to morons.

nor do you expect the same to be going at speed, in the sodding dark.

I made out it was a hire boat, large boat higher, but couldn’t see the boat name.

 

narrow boats is about enjoying the water, the wild life, the scenery, the slowing down in life surely.

not trying to get as far as posible, and as quickly.

 

morons!!!!

 

may be I’m now a cantankerous old git

been a member for 13 years

boat owner coastal the same 15 , in total  28 glorious years

yep adding it up I’m old

 

sorry guys but my wife also agrees, I’m cantankerous

Edited July 18, 2021 by bigcol
Wife thinks I’m cantankerous as well

[zenataomm]

2 hours ago, bigcol said:

I would think if a stream caused by flooding is heaping along at 5+ knots

and your boat max is 4 knots

would it not be irresponsible to send a hirer boat out in that.

if the boat hits  another boat, or indeed crashes into bridge, or destroys a swans nest in the same circumstances a boat owner will be classed as silly and brought to task

but a hirer on a hire boat, is is it the hirer, or hire company?

 

I think police CRT enforcers or CRT staff should have the powers to bring boat owners, boat hirers and boat hire companies to task, for any enfrigment of the CRT rules, including cyclists. 
 

and that being moored on the tow path is a diferent story

 

and yes I’m on one to day, as nearly everyone on a hire boat has been a Pratt, except a small minority that have been excelent!!

but getting sick of hiring companies hiring boaters to morons.

nor do you expect the same to be going at speed, in the sodding dark.

I made out it was a hire boat, large boat higher, but couldn’t see the boat name.

 

narrow boats is about enjoying the water, the wild life, the scenery, the slowing down in life surely.

not trying to get as far as posible, and as quickly.

 

morons!!!!

 

may be I’m now a cantankerous old git

been a member for 13 years

boat owner coastal the same 15 , in total  28 glorious years

yep adding it up I’m old

 

sorry guys but my wife also agrees, I’m cantankerous

 

Pardon?

[gatekrash]

Hire companies do come down hard on people who break their rules, if they find out about it.

 

We hired this year, as despite owning our own boat it had been booked over 2 years ago pre-covid and kept getting rearranged. As we'd already paid for it we figured we'd use it.

 

We were moored up just below Stoke Bruerne on the last Friday of our hire, when an ABC boat came past us flat out, music on full blast and the 6 or 8 lads on board clearly on the lash. It was half past 9 in the morning. 

 

On the Sunday morning when we dropped the boat back at Gayton fairly early, the same boat appeared behind us blasting their horn and being generally offensive. Chatting to one of the guys on the marina who worked for ABC, they had been reported by numerous people over a 24 hr period. ABC had tracked them down and ordered them back to the marina on the Sunday with the police involved. They'd only had the boat for 3 days of their 7, and apparently the full cost of their week was forfeit for breaching the T&C's of their hire.

 

Their hiring rules were clearly explained, including slowing down, not cruising at night, and the difficult one for us, given it was a warm sunny week, not allowing you to cruise with the side hatch open, and you have to sign to say you accept them so anyone breaching them would be liable themselves, not the hire company.

 

[MrsM]

I shut the side hatch in locks but don't see why it should be done when cruising - were you given a reason?

[jeddlad]

30 minutes ago, MrsM said:

I shut the side hatch in locks but don't see why it should be done when cruising - were you given a reason?

I don't know why, but I never cruise with the side hatch open. I've always shut it and always will......Can't give you a reason why. Similarly I never cruise with the bow doors open.

 

Thinking about it, I'm normally single handed and just don't like the doors or side hatch open as I cruise along.  

[BilgePump]

3 hours ago, gatekrash said:

Their hiring rules were clearly explained, including slowing down, not cruising at night, and the difficult one for us, given it was a warm sunny week, not allowing you to cruise with the side hatch open, and you have to sign to say you accept them so anyone breaching them would be liable themselves, not the hire company.

 

Drunken hirers going along, someone decides to poke their head a good way out, going into a load of trees, bridgehole or lock. Hire companies are probably just covering themselves if one of the crew suffers an injury. Can't see any issue with cruising with them open and secured on your own boat, except in a lock where you don't want water getting in the cabin. Similarly, unless in a lock, having the bow doors open can make it a bit easier to dash through the cabin to the bow if needed.

 

It's not hard to appreciate the OP's anger. The hirers haven't shown just an antisocial disregard for other people but a total lack of respect for the wildlife, killing a swan in the process. That's not merely a bit of larking about and high spirits, and it does seem only right that someone is held to account. Repeated behaviour like that by a boat owner would ultimately end up with sanctions. Hirers should face consequences and hire bases shouldn't be afraid to act to terminate a hire period  early without refund if other boats, people, wildlife or the canal infrastructure are being put at risk. This means being prepared to swiftly respond to complaints from other canal users. 

 

Has it got worse this year? Only today, saw an advert on ebay where the owner had to add another picture of some damage just done to the boat by a hireboat. Possibly more bookings from groups that would normally go abroad and not think of going on a canal holiday. The boat only serves as a location to host their jollies. It seems that everyone has also got into camping this year. Pity that a lot of them seem to have no love of nature and think that wild camping means starting an open cast refuse tip. These people will be selfish holidaymakers no matter where they go, but this year may well be their first to a canal or campsite, so we're beginning to see more of this kind of behaviour.

[Bod]

13 hours ago, bigcol said:

I would think if a stream caused by flooding is heaping along at 5+ knots

and your boat max is 4 knots

would it not be irresponsible to send a hirer boat out in that.

if the boat hits  another boat, or indeed crashes into bridge, or destroys a swans nest in the same circumstances a boat owner will be classed as silly and brought to task

but a hirer on a hire boat, is is it the hirer, or hire company?

 

I think police CRT enforcers or CRT staff should have the powers to bring boat owners, boat hirers and boat hire companies to task, for any enfrigment of the CRT rules, including cyclists. 
 

and that being moored on the tow path is a diferent story

 

and yes I’m on one to day, as nearly everyone on a hire boat has been a Pratt, except a small minority that have been excelent!!

but getting sick of hiring companies hiring boaters to morons.

nor do you expect the same to be going at speed, in the sodding dark.

I made out it was a hire boat, large boat higher, but couldn’t see the boat name.

 

narrow boats is about enjoying the water, the wild life, the scenery, the slowing down in life surely.

not trying to get as far as posible, and as quickly.

 

morons!!!!

 

may be I’m now a cantankerous old git

been a member for 13 years

boat owner coastal the same 15 , in total  28 glorious years

yep adding it up I’m old

 

sorry guys but my wife also agrees, I’m cantankerous

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/original/1025-general-canal-byelaws-1965.pdf?v=a2628a

C&RT DO have powers, if only they choose to use them.

 

Bod

 

[jpcdriver]

Under the Wildlife & Countryside Act 1981 - it is illegal to  Intentionally or recklessly disturb any wild bird listed on Schedule 1 while it is nest building, or at a nest containing eggs or young, or disturb the dependent young of such a bird. This does apply to swans, so if you had evidence, ideally photographic of the boat swamping the nest the hirer could be prosecuted.

[Stroudwater1]

I thought schedule 1 only applied to Bewick and Whooper swans? Perhaps I have missed an upgrade? 

Edited July 19, 2021 by Stroudwater1

[droshky]

18 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

My last NB was an ex hire boat, the way that they had (cunningly) reduced the possibility of speeding was by using a 3:1 gear box in lieu of a 2:1 gearbox.

 

At anything above 3-4mph the revs were so high the noise was uncomfortable and speech /hearing was difficult. Presumably no hirers wanted to be unable to talk to each other so the never went too fast.

 

Imagine the briefing "if you cannot hear someone speaking at normal volume, you are going too fast, slow down."

I’d never get to start my old Lister air cooled 2 cyl, never mind rev it!

[jpcdriver]

1 hour ago, Stroudwater1 said:

thought schedule 1 only applied to Bewick and Whooper swans? Perhaps I have missed an upgrade? 

Apologies, i stand corrected on that. 

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, jpcdriver said:

Apologies, i stand corrected on that. 

 

 

Since the 12th century, the Crown has held the right to ownership over all wild, unmarked mute swans in open water. However, the Queen only exercises her right over parts of the Thames and its tributaries. This right is shared with the Vintners’ Company and the Dyers’ Company, livery companies of the City of London. Every year, the Swan Upping ceremony is carried out by the Crown and the Companies to record and mark all the swans in the area. Killing one of the Queen’s mute swans may be unlawful, but it has never been an act of treason. Furthermore, tame swans and all other varieties of wild swan (eg whooper and Bewick’s swans) are free.

[Steilsteven]

23 hours ago, bigcol said:

What I would like to know, can the boat hiring company’s be held responsible (for not so much damae caused) but there hirers not being advised, for not making sure that their hired craft keep to  the speed limit. I’m not talking about damage caused, but hiring company’s to be responsible for theirs customers behaviour for their customers speeding.

if not, why not.?

 

 these hire companies should make sure the boats have limiters to their fleets engines.

they should be held liable, responsible for their boats speeding, then if the holiday makers etc are not taking notic of the instructions given

then The companies that have the ability to decrease the boats power, and choose not to, then they should be to blame.

 

so has any one took a company to task over this, or throughout the canal fleets they are allowed to turf out speeding twats

that kill wildlife destroy nests and damage other peaples  property??

 

col

 

Hi Col,

I totally understand where you're coming from but how do you ( or anyone else ) prove that the hire company hasn't given such instruction or advice?

You could hardly expect them to be responsible for the actions of hirers that have totally ignored what they've been told. Can your driving instructor be held responsible for your terrible driving after you passed your test? 

Anyone who kills wildlife and/or destroys nests should be held accountable personally for doing so and it is up to the persons who witnessed such actions to pursue this with the help of the hire company in identifying the culprit.

Any form of limiter on a boat could lead to all sorts of difficulties and cannot in any way be compared to limiters on road vehicles, road vehicles don't have to cope with currents for a start.

 

I'm sure that hire companies receive complaints on an almost daily basis and act appropriately but they are in business and if they bollocked every customer on their return because they'd made someone's boat move a few inches they would soon go out of business.

Hire boats are so easily identifiable that everyone remembers when one did something wrong but the same doesn't apply to private boats, even though many of them are owned by people who don't have a clue how to handle them. I've had many more private boats crash into mine or pass too fast when I'm moored than hire boats over the years, I tend to forgive the latter but not the former in most cases.

 

Keith

 

 

Edited July 19, 2021 by Steilsteven

[PeterF]

The hire boat companies should adhere to the hire boat code and CRT also have a role in this.

 

If you wish to complain you can contact CRT's business licensing manager for the appropriate region https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/business-and-trade/boating-business/business-boating-team-contacts.

 

You can also complain to British Marine if they are a member https://britishmarine.co.uk/Contact-us

[Ex Brummie]

17 minutes ago, Steilsteven said:

Hi Col,

 

Hire boats are so easily identifiable that everyone remembers when one did something wrong but the same doesn't apply to private boats, even though many of them are owned by people who don't have a clue how to handle them. I've had many more private boats crash into mine or pass too fast when I'm moored than hire boats over the years, I tend to forgive the latter but not the former in most cases.

 

Keith

 

 

Not every hire boat is easily identified; one fleet in the midlands carries no address or phone number. If you consider that most hirers have just come off motorways or main roads, then 4 mph is totally alien to them. They are probably also people to whom 10 mph in car parks is only a token, but again the same applies to many private owners. Many private boat owners 'lend' their craft to friends or family. All the hire boats I have seen have basic instructions on a notice prominently displayed to the steerer, but we all know, 4 mph is often too fast even on open canals. I know that on many narrow canals it is only an aspiration in my boat.

I'm sure all hire operators are fully aware of  their responsibility and acquit themselves accordingly.