Are boat hirer company’s responsible?

[bigcol]

What I would like to know, can the boat hiring company’s be held responsible (for not so much damae caused) but there hirers not being advised, for not making sure that their hired craft keep to  the speed limit. I’m not talking about damage caused, but hiring company’s to be responsible for theirs customers behaviour for their customers speeding.

if not, why not.?

 

 these hire companies should make sure the boats have limiters to their fleets engines.

they should be held liable, responsible for their boats speeding, then if the holiday makers etc are not taking notic of the instructions given

then The companies that have the ability to decrease the boats power, and choose not to, then they should be to blame.

 

so has any one took a company to task over this, or throughout the canal fleets they are allowed to turf out speeding twats

that kill wildlife destroy nests and damage other peaples  property??

 

col

 

[Orwellian]

Car hire companies aren't responsible for their customers speeding or otherwise breaking the law so why should boat hire companies be? It's a ridiculous proposal.

[Rob-M]

We hired a boat many years ago that had a stop on forward revs preventing using high revs in forward gear.  It was a pain when trying to manoeuvre such as winding or bringing the stern in to moor as you couldn't give a blast of high revs.

[bigcol]

I’m sorry, but not the same!!

car drivers have to be licenced

and if they cause damage hirers have to pay for it through the the companies insurance or their own.

 

boat hirering company’s hire to any one, groups or anyone that pays them the money

if a hirer, is drunk, or is high as a kite, and causes damage to someone else perhaps yours

whos responsible!!!

[bigcol]

10 minutes ago, Orwellian said:

Car hire companies aren't responsible for their customers speeding or otherwise breaking the law so why should boat hire companies be? It's a ridiculous proposal.

I like to ask, are you a hirer, liveaboard, or a leisure user?

[pearley]

Firstly I'm with Ron-M that limiting engine speed is not the answer. Plenty of times when you want a quick burst of revs to give better steerage.

 

We've been hit twice and damaged caused by hire boats and on both occasions the companies concerned paid for the damage caused without any hassle.

[Orwellian]

3 minutes ago, bigcol said:

I like to ask, are you a hirer, liveaboard, or a leisure user?

None of those at the moment how about you?

[zenataomm]

You either didn't think this through, or have a very simplistic view of the world.

Your suggestion would set up enough precedents to empty half the prisons and tie up the courts for years.

 

You can't delegate the responsibility for an individual's actions to a third party.  Licensed or not, everybody is responsible for their own actions.

3 minutes ago, bigcol said:

and if they cause damage hirers have to pay for it through the the companies insurance or their own.

 

Yes, why do you seem to think this doesn't apply to Hire Boaters? 

You are clearly emotionally upset about something, and are letting that to drive clear thinking out of your head.

2 minutes ago, bigcol said:

I like to ask, are you a hirer, liveaboard, or a leisure user?

I'd suggest your question is personal, irrelevant and none of your business.

 

Finally, let's ignore the differences between Criminal and Civil law for a moment (as I suspect this will drag on) I know of many hire companies (members here) who do not hire to just anyone. And most hire companies don't put limiters on boat throttles because it could prove lethal.  Which I view as a far more serious set of circumstances to any of the ones you have listed.

[ditchcrawler]

how many private boaters have been prosecuted for speeding on the inland waterways.

[bigcol]

And if you see a hirer going so fast to cause destruction a a nest for swans or any other bird, that’s okay then?

or for any boat user.

 

but living near a hire company, seeing crews pissed, over toxicated, who is responsible?

when they get back to the base, they Denying they hit a boat, or the hiring company tell their customers to keep quite, or worse than that they keep quite!

 

a can rental company would be held responsible for all 3rd party damage!

The car rentals customers also would have a licence, 

but a hire company can hire to just anyone!!

[bigcol]

9 minutes ago, pearley said:

Firstly I'm with Ron-M that limiting engine speed is not the answer. Plenty of times when you want a quick burst of revs to give better steerage.

 

We've been hit twice and damaged caused by hire boats and on both occasions the companies concerned paid for the damage caused without any hassle.

We’re part of a online marina, and 2 of our neighbours have had damage caused, by hire company’s,plus seen a swan killed.

 today seen a Pratt go so fast as to swam a swans nest.

 

but no ones responsible?

 

car, lorry van hiring companies some have inbuilt limiters fitted.

if you can’t helm a boat with a speed limiter, then maybe think of not hiring, because clearly you can’t keep to the requirements of CRT rules!

 

what your saying to control the vessel boat on the cut, you have to go faster that is prohibited.

[bigcol]

In a harbour ie Poole, 10 knots is the speed limit, if your caught then you recieve a heavy fine,

if you speed on a road, if caught, you get fined

if sending out a hirer on a boat, who speeds cause damage or death, who’s responsible?

Maybe boat owners alike should have licences, which I would welcome.

hirers should be held responsible as the hiring company’s.

If the hirers haven’t got boat licences, and hiring company’s continue to let anyone hire out to anyone, they shoul be responsible.

 

example. On the coast, in every country, jet skis are widely hired out to anyone, if out and about, playing around enjoying themselves, and kills a swimmer, it it the hiring companies responsibility, or the hirer.?

 

if insurance comes to play, is it the hirer? No , it’s the company who hired it out!!  Along side with their insurance company!

 

 

 

29 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

how many private boaters have been prosecuted for speeding on the inland waterways.

 

yes that be interesting to know?

just like it seems okay for hirers to get away Scot free!

 

not fair is it

[Guest]

Big Col sure has his underwear in a knot.

[Stilllearning]

1 hour ago, bigcol said:

What I would like to know, can the boat hiring company’s be held responsible (for not so much damae caused) but there hirers not being advised, for not making sure that their hired craft keep to  the speed limit. I’m not talking about damage caused, but hiring company’s to be responsible for theirs customers behaviour for their customers speeding.

if not, why not.?

 

 these hire companies should make sure the boats have limiters to their fleets engines.

they should be held liable, responsible for their boats speeding, then if the holiday makers etc are not taking notic of the instructions given

then The companies that have the ability to decrease the boats power, and choose not to, then they should be to blame.

 

so has any one took a company to task over this, or throughout the canal fleets they are allowed to turf out speeding twats

that kill wildlife destroy nests and damage other peaples  property??

 

col

 

After having given a boatload of hirers up to 3 hours practical tuition, including using a lock, after that is it still reasonable to assume that if they do something stupid, it’s the hire company’s fault?

[Rob-M]

35 minutes ago, bigcol said:

We’re part of a online marina, and 2 of our neighbours have had damage caused, by hire company’s,plus seen a swan killed.

 today seen a Pratt go so fast as to swam a swans nest.

 

but no ones responsible?

 

car, lorry van hiring companies some have inbuilt limiters fitted.

if you can’t helm a boat with a speed limiter, then maybe think of not hiring, because clearly you can’t keep to the requirements of CRT rules!

 

what your saying to control the vessel boat on the cut, you have to go faster that is prohibited.

Not saying that at all but there are occasions, such as when winding on a windy day where you need to give a blast of high revs. In a car or van the limiter is a speed limiter preventing you exceeding say 60 mph, on a boat it would be a revs limiter. What if you are on a river heading for a weir and need a bit of full throttle to turn against the pull?

[Guest]

Ive had more 'tuition' as a hire boater than I ever recieved as a boat 'owner'.

[Stilllearning]

9 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

Not saying that at all but there are occasions, such as when winding on a windy day where you need to give a blast of high revs. In a car or van the limiter is a speed limiter preventing you exceeding say 60 mph, on a boat it would be a revs limiter. What if you are on a river heading for a weir and need a bit of full throttle to turn against the pull?

As you say, a rev limiter could kill the boaters.

[cuthound]

I live on a popular canal cruising ring. Many boats speed past my mooring, I'd say at least 85% of them are privately owned.

 

Usually I ignore it, but I once reported an excessively speeding hire boat to the local company. Never seen one of their boats speed past since.

 

Have you tried complaining to the company which owns the boat(s) thst have upset you? 

Edited July 18, 2021 by cuthound
Clarification

[Jess--]

1 hour ago, bigcol said:

 

if you can’t helm a boat with a speed limiter, then maybe think of not hiring, because clearly you can’t keep to the requirements of CRT rules!

 

there is no sensible way of using a speed limiter (or even worse a rev limiter) on a narrow boat as there is no way of reliably measuring the speed of a narrowboat through the water (the narrow / shallow nature of canals messes up the prop in the water type counters)

using gps etc would only give you a speed over ground reading with no account for any possible flow on a river (imagine trying to navigate downstream on a river flowing at 5mph and finding that you can't raise the engine off tickover because you are already moving faster than the 4mph limit)

Edited July 18, 2021 by Jess--
spelling errors

[system 4-50]

If a hire company put a 1,000 HP engine in a boat, it would be the hire company's fault.  So there is a requirement for the hire co to provide a sensible propulsion system.  What I would like to see is their engines fitted with a system that prevents sustained high revs, (allowing brief say 30 seconds ? at high revs for awkward situations, ) for non-river operations.  When we get electric boats then of course they will have bankside-controlled limiters for individual sections of the canal.  I look forward to a similar system on motorways (not that many boats use motorways).

[Alan de Enfield]

 

My last NB was an ex hire boat, the way that they had (cunningly) reduced the possibility of speeding was by using a 3:1 gear box in lieu of a 2:1 gearbox.

 

At anything above 3-4mph the revs were so high the noise was uncomfortable and speech /hearing was difficult. Presumably no hirers wanted to be unable to talk to each other so the never went too fast.

 

Imagine the briefing "if you cannot hear someone speaking at normal volume, you are going too fast, slow down."

[Rose Narrowboats]

33 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

My last NB was an ex hire boat, the way that they had (cunningly) reduced the possibility of speeding was by using a 3:1 gear box in lieu of a 2:1 gearbox.

 

At anything above 3-4mph the revs were so high the noise was uncomfortable and speech /hearing was difficult. Presumably no hirers wanted to be unable to talk to each other so the never went too fast.

 

Imagine the briefing "if you cannot hear someone speaking at normal volume, you are going too fast, slow down."

The actual ratio is irrelevant - the fact it was underpropped for the ratio is what matters.

 

Most of our boats are fitted with 3:1 boxes; it's more fuel efficient and there's less shaft & stern bush wear, but they're not revving their heads off at cruising speed.

 

Sound does play a big part in perception though and of course everyone is building things as quiet as possible. Back in the good old days it was noticeable that you were far more likely to get shouted to slow down with a 3-clyinder Lister than a two-pot even if you were doing the same speed.

 

I imagine (if any ever makes it a viable proposition on the inland waterways) that the problem will get even worse with electric boats as the only sound they'll hear will be their breaking wash

35 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

If a hire company put a 1,000 HP engine in a boat, it would be the hire company's fault.  So there is a requirement for the hire co to provide a sensible propulsion system.  What I would like to see is their engines fitted with a system that prevents sustained high revs, (allowing brief say 30 seconds ? at high revs for awkward situations, ) for non-river operations.  When we get electric boats then of course they will have bankside-controlled limiters for individual sections of the canal.  I look forward to a similar system on motorways (not that many boats use motorways).

We have a data logger under development which will also have the function to put on a red light, followed by an annoying squawking if the revs are left to high for too long, however that feature is useless for anything other than the day boat, as there are plenty of places the rest of our fleet gets where the use of higher revs is entirely justified, and on occasion essential, e.g. the Soar, Trent, Severn, Avon, and Thames.

Edited July 18, 2021 by Rose Narrowboats

[GUMPY]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

how many private boaters have been prosecuted for speeding on the inland waterways.

Please sir, please sir I know of one 😁

[system 4-50]

1 hour ago, Loddon said:

Please sir, please sir I know of one 😁

Oh, do tell! (I can't imagine who it might be!)

Edited July 18, 2021 by system 4-50

[David Mack]

A while ago Orph Mable of Oxley Marine wrote of receiving multiple complaints, including speeding, about the behaviour of people on one of his day hire boats. Such was the number and nature of the complaints that he had no choice but to go out to the boat and terminate the hire there and then. When he got there he found that the upper limit on the engine speed control had been adjusted by the hirers so they could go faster. There's not much a hire company can do to stop hirers doing that sort of thing!