Questions to ask boat builders?

[PD1964]

1 hour ago, Sea Dog said:

Conversely, perhaps the last of the well proven diesels may well be in high demand on the second hand market for many years to come. The alternatives are not yet fully mature and are not coming along because they're a "no brainer" from an ownership perspective but rather are still sub optimal thus having to be forced in by legislation. Diesel power might be being phased out on the canals, but once seemingly outdated historic engines are still very much in demand. The Beta 43 might well be amongst their ranks in a few years time.

Take no notice he scaremongers, wait till 2025, are they going to kick all the diesel’s off the canals? NO. 
 He has now left the “muddy ditch’’s, and sewer tube boaters” to get on with it. He can cut and paste all he likes  but reality in the real world it’s different and it keeps rolling on😀

Edited July 16, 2021 by PD1964

[Alan de Enfield]

25 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

Take no notice he scaremongers, wait till 2025, are they going to kick all the diesel’s off the canals? NO. 

 

maybe you have a problem understanding what you read, or maybe it is intentional scaremongering.

 

Try reading what was actually written.

 

The law is that :

Any boat built 2025 onwards MUST BE capable of being converted to emission free propulsion

Any boat built 2035 onwards MUST BE ONLY emission free propulsion

 

But of course the facts don't suit your agenda.

[PD1964]

32 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

maybe you have a problem understanding what you read, or maybe it is intentional scaremongering.

 

Try reading what was actually written.

 

The law is that :

Any boat built 2025 onwards MUST BE capable of being converted to emission free propulsion

Any boat built 2035 onwards MUST BE ONLY emission free propulsion

 

But of course the facts don't suit your agenda.

Alan it’s 2021, I seen a boat the other day and it was unique to say the least (obviously built for them) and they had been telling everyone that it was a diesel/electric hybrid. I heard it as it came to moor next to me and it sounded like a Lister SR/ST, which I found out it was, he was chuffed that he had a an electric hybrid conversion(save the planet) I looked at him and thought fool they seen you coming and had £10k-£20K off you.

Edited July 16, 2021 by PD1964

[dmr]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

maybe you have a problem understanding what you read, or maybe it is intentional scaremongering.

 

Try reading what was actually written.

 

The law is that :

Any boat built 2025 onwards MUST BE capable of being converted to emission free propulsion

Any boat built 2035 onwards MUST BE ONLY emission free propulsion

 

But of course the facts don't suit your agenda.

 

Is it actually law, or a government "aspiration" ????

 

............Dave

[Alan de Enfield]

47 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

Is it actually law, or a government "aspiration" ????

 

............Dave

 

I believe it has gone into law.

The over arching targets (of which these are part) have been agreed internationally.

 

The plans for the whole of the maritime industry (both offshore UK waters and Inland waters) are outlined in document "Clean maritine Plan 2050"

 

From the .Gov.uk website :

 

 

 

 

UK enshrines new target in law to slash emissions by 78% by 2035

• English
• Русский

The UK’s sixth Carbon Budget will incorporate the UK’s share of international aviation and shipping emissions for the first time, to bring the UK more than three-quarters of the way to net zero by 2050.

 

In line with the recommendation from the independent Climate Change Committee, this sixth Carbon Budget limits the volume of greenhouse gases emitted over a 5-year period from 2033 to 2037, taking the UK more than three-quarters of the way to reaching net zero by 2050. The Carbon Budget will ensure Britain remains on track to end its contribution to climate change while remaining consistent with the Paris Agreement temperature goal to limit global warming to well below 2°C and pursue efforts towards 1.5°C.

For the first time, this Carbon Budget will incorporate the UK’s share of international aviation and shipping emissions – an important part of the government’s decarbonisation efforts that will allow for these emissions to be accounted for consistently.

 

The UK is the first country to enter legally binding long-term carbon budgets into legislation, first introduced as part of the 2008 Climate Change Act. Since then, 5 carbon budgets have been put into law putting the UK on track to meet our ambitious goal to eliminate our contribution to climate change by 2050 and achieve net zero emissions.  

 

 

 

The means of achieving the results are not specified in the law, the end targets have been passed into law, & the Clean Maritime Plan 2050 (along with other industry specific plans) is the route they intend to follow to comply with, and meet the targets within these laws.

 

So, yes, you could say that the detail is not 'law', but surely that is the norm for any laws, the details of the potential methods of achieving them is not specified.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Alan de Enfield

[dmr]

8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I believe it has gone into law.

The over arching targets (of which these are part) have been agreed internationally.

 

The plans for the whole of the maritime industry (both offshore UK waters and Inland waters) are outlined in document "Clean maritine Plan 2050"

 

From the .Gov.uk website :

 

 

 

 

 

So canal boats (35,000 or so) have to have electric motors whilst the government says "keep on flying" and some new as yet unavailable technology will make flying zero carbon????? Its very hard to take this seriously. 😀

 

I'm feeling pretty healthy just now but I do drink a bit too much, not sure I will be here in 2050.

 

.............Dave

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, dmr said:

So canal boats (35,000 or so) have to have electric motors whilst the government says "keep on flying" and some new as yet unavailable technology will make flying zero carbon????? Its very hard to take this seriously. 😀

 

I'm feeling pretty healthy just now but I do drink a bit too much, not sure I will be here in 2050.

 

.............Dave

 

Have a read of the "Zero Emission 2050 for Aviation" and what they have to do,

 

Electric passenger planes are already doing 2 or 3 hour 'internal' flights in several countries.

[Bee]

I really do not want to get into criticising people for seeking a conversation about what to specify for a new boat. Its a learning curve and if you want to shorten it and avoid some of the pain that seems like a good idea. Thing is that if I was going for a salt water boat my highly impractical vision would be an ancient  wooden gaffer, that might not be a good idea though so to be gently steered towards a second hand GRP proven design would be much appreciated and if someone explained why that's a better idea than either buying 10 tons of old, deep keeled trouble or building from new with every conceivable gadget and gizmo that would be much appreciated.

[blackrose]

On 16/07/2021 at 11:23, system 4-50 said:

 

    sprayfoam throughout including baseplate    .

 

I'd say that's not a very good idea. Unless the boat has a very thick baseplate then the builder would have the dubious proposition of sitting ballast on top of the sprayfoam.

 

Additionally, any plumbing leaks which are bound to happen over the years and would normally drain to the stern of the cabin where the water can be removed via an inspection hatch, would instead soak into the sprayfoam (which is comprised of both closed and open cells) or get underneath it and there would be no way of getting it out.

 

Just get the ballast laid on old cables or plastic spacers and if you want floor insulation it would need to go under the floorboards.

 

 

Edited July 17, 2021 by blackrose

[Ray T]

"'OW MUCH?"

 

 

Or, here I quote:

" How about replacing the tiller with a joystick, have depth, speed and rudder position gauges, a GPS and a bow camera for checking its clear before venturing out of the Marina. And then of course, the inside would have to be totally different too."

 

Edited July 17, 2021 by Ray T

[Mike1951]

On 16/07/2021 at 19:11, PD1964 said:

Don’t worry about it, with their “Off Shore” boats, another clueless couple coming onto the Canals, that will waste their money on a new build that will never leave the Marina, top tip wait till you see this years Crick Show winner???

let this couple discuss their off shore boats with Alan and think their something. Do they really think that putting a picture of their £XXXXXXK offshore boat means anything, just like no-ones bothered about £250K Cats on the canal.

Well prejudice and ignorance haunts this world too. Especially for people who hide behind anonymous screen names. We may well be "clueless" about getting a narrowboat built, which is why we are asking for advice. As to boat handling I think it takes more than a little more skill to handle a boat in a tideway and strong wind than ditch crawling in a floating tank. My wife was born and raised next to the canal and as for staying in the marina, we have cruised many hundreds of miles on over a dozen different canals in England. Don't bother responding as I normally ignore trolls and you won't get a further response.

[PD1964]

21 minutes ago, Mike1951 said:

Well prejudice and ignorance haunts this world too. Especially for people who hide behind anonymous screen names. We may well be "clueless" about getting a narrowboat built, which is why we are asking for advice. As to boat handling I think it takes more than a little more skill to handle a boat in a tideway and strong wind than ditch crawling in a floating tank. My wife was born and raised next to the canal and as for staying in the marina, we have cruised many hundreds of miles on over a dozen different canals in England. Don't bother responding as I normally ignore trolls and you won't get a further response.

With all that experience and the hundreds of miles covered on a dozen canals you still don’t know what to look for or what you want on a new build. Just go to this years Crick show, I’m sure there will be lots of builders there who will be quite happy to discuss your requirements and needs and take your money to build you a boat, you may even be able to buy one of their show boats to save the wait and that’s being serious.

Edited July 19, 2021 by PD1964

[Mike1951]

Met a "proper boatbuilder" this week rather than someone just trying to sell us the standard boats they make. We sat down with him and he asked us what we wanted and told us what it would cost. We told him that was over our budget and so he told us the changes HE could make to get nearer to the budget. He drew out the floorplan out and explained how we could gain a little space here and there by making small changes as well as the changes/compromises we shouldn't make. We had maximum benefit from his nearly 45 years experience. He gave the right answers to all the questions you all have suggested and the "why not" to the few that he didn't agree with.

 

I think we have found our boatbuilder...

 

 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Mike1951 said:

Met a "proper boatbuilder" this week rather than someone just trying to sell us the standard boats they make. We sat down with him and he asked us what we wanted and told us what it would cost. We told him that was over our budget and so he told us the changes HE could make to get nearer to the budget. He drew out the floorplan out and explained how we could gain a little space here and there by making small changes as well as the changes/compromises we shouldn't make. We had maximum benefit from his nearly 45 years experience. He gave the right answers to all the questions you all have suggested and the "why not" to the few that he didn't agree with.

 

I think we have found our boatbuilder...

 

 

 

This person being?

[Mike1951]

1 minute ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

This person being?

Gary Cole

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Mike1951 said:

Gary Cole

 

Good luck.