Thoughts on this boat welcome, please

[matty40s]

3 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

 

I made a comment on FB that the problem with having a Gardener engine was you had to have the engine hole doors open in all weathers.

That's only for everyone elses satisfaction, you can be nasty and keep em shut, when they ask what it is just tell em it's a crap jap just running on 2 out of the 4 cylinders...oh, and the turbos broke too

[NB DW2]

Out of interest, given my mechanical know how is very limited to say the least, would running this particular engine end in misery and frustration given it'd be used as a liveaboard?

 

I had a Beta in the last boat and relied on paid help for servicing and maintenance, and had RCR for anything else.  Are spares and finding somebody with the knowledge of this engine getting harder and harder to come by?  Maybe it's better to play it safe and get something Japanese.

 

I've read bits about them on this forum.  They're not great for charging batteries, so I understand, unless the engine is under load.  Not a problem as I'd be marina based.  

 

Thoughts appreciated.

[matty40s]

2LW parts are still widely available, servicing is far easier to do yourself as you dont have to try to wedge yourself into an engine bay. 

I saw a 2LW 2 weeks ago with 3 CAV filters in series which was complete overkill, a simple cartridge oil filter and some have air filters, some dont.

[0000]

29 minutes ago, NB DW2 said:

Out of interest, given my mechanical know how is very limited to say the least, would running this particular engine end in misery and frustration given it'd be used as a liveaboard?

 

I had a Beta in the last boat and relied on paid help for servicing and maintenance, and had RCR for anything else.  Are spares and finding somebody with the knowledge of this engine getting harder and harder to come by?  Maybe it's better to play it safe and get something Japanese.

 

I've read bits about them on this forum.  They're not great for charging batteries, so I understand, unless the engine is under load.  Not a problem as I'd be marina based.  

 

Thoughts appreciated.

My advice having owned both modern and vintage engine boats is to agree in that your first instincts are correct, unless you have a good level of mechanical knowledge, stick to a modern engine. The fact that you are a live aboard or not makes no difference.   

[NB DW2]

1 minute ago, BrandyMark said:

My advice having owned both modern and vintage engine boats is to agree in that your first instincts are correct, unless you have a good level of mechanical knowledge, stick to a modern engine. The fact that you are a live aboard or not makes no difference.   

 

Thanks.  Thought as much.  Will keep on searching!

[dmr]

The Gardner 2LW is really an early design of modern engine rather than a vintage engine, its operation and maintenance is only marginally more demanding than many modern engines.

 

I believe that a forum moderator has one and is not really a mechanically minded person 😀

 

............Dave

[booke23]

2 hours ago, NB DW2 said:

Out of interest, given my mechanical know how is very limited to say the least, would running this particular engine end in misery and frustration given it'd be used as a liveaboard?

 

Of all the vintage engines a Gardener is probably closest to a modern engine in operation. Start it with a key like a modern engine........I've even seen them with single lever morse controls. They are very well built and are often found in the middle of nowhere in Africa powering a generator or well pump, with no air filter, hardly any maintenance and with tens of thousands of hours on them still running very well. If I had to recommend a vintage engine to someone who isn't mechanically minded it'd be a Gardener.

[noddyboater]

I really don't get this tosh about not having a vintage engine in a livaboard boat unless you're part of the Fred Dibnah fan club. 

Unless a blow lamp is involved,  it's generally a turn of a key to start the thing,  and funnily enough it will carry on running until you stop it, much the same as a brand new one.

Ok, every few days you might have to put a few drops of oil on something you may not understand,  or put a blob of grease on a thingy wotsit. But it will make your boat move, and charge your batteries whilst adding interest when you get to busy locks etc. 

If it's in good condition when you buy the boat there's a good chance that apart from a yearly service it won't need anything. If it ever does require major work there's plenty of specialists around,  and because they're also enthusiasts there's less chance of you being ripped off than calling the local Beta agents. (How much for a starter motor!?)

Powering a narrow boat is like being on holiday for a Gardner,  sitting there all nice and clean with a sump full of classic 30. You wouldn't believe the state of the inside of some that I've stripped down that were still running fine from road vehicles. 

If you want a boat with a 2LW in it then buy it, I'll pm you my number and you can ring me every time it won't start.

[Athy]

8 hours ago, dmr said:

The Gardner 2LW is really an early design of modern engine rather than a vintage engine, its operation and maintenance is only marginally more demanding than many modern engines.

 

I believe that a forum moderator has one and is not really a mechanically minded person 😀

 

............Dave

That could be me.

Our 2LW was rebuilt by Walsh's prior to being installed (as the one in Elidir was, by the sound of it). It has let us down three times in 14 years. When still new and tight, it blew a starter motor. More recently it stopped because of dirty fuel. I can't remember what the other one was.

[Athy]

9 hours ago, NB DW2 said:

 

 

I've read bits about them on this forum.  They're not great for charging batteries, so I understand, unless the engine is under load. 

 

Thoughts appreciated.

I don't know who told you that. We quite often run the engine while we're at our mooring, and it charges the batteries effectively. An advantage in winter is that after you're run it for a couple of hours the engine, being half a ton in weight, will radiate heat for hours and help to keep the bedroom warm!

9 hours ago, matty40s said:

2LW parts are still widely available.

That's right because, although Gardner no longer make engines (the last one came out in 2000 or thereabouts), their Gardner Parts subsidiary is still a going concern and will supply, yes you've guessed, new parts for Gardners.

   DW2, this boat is probably keenly priced because it's a bit of a hybrid: mixture of windows and portholes, engine a bit further back than the traditonal mid engine-room.So, purists may turn their noses up at it. but from what I can gather you aren't one. But it's from a good builder and looks to be in good clean order. You can't see the bow shape when you're steering it, either. It is most certainly worth a look.

Edited July 19, 2021 by Athy

[Tracy D'arth]

The problems I would have as a live aboard with a vintage engine in the mid boat position are the raised rear floor to cover the prop shaft and the loss of 8 or 10 feet of the cabin to the shrine that is a classic engine hole.

[Athy]

17 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

The problems I would have as a live aboard with a vintage engine in the mid boat position are the raised rear floor to cover the prop shaft and the loss of 8 or 10 feet of the cabin to the shrine that is a classic engine hole.

But in this case the bit behind the engine is more store room than living space, so it really won't matter. In Trojan, much of the "raised rear floor" is under the bed, so that doesn't matter either, as the bed is at a normal height.

Our engine room is between five and six feet long and it's as much a gain as a loss, as equipment such as jerry cans are kept in there, the inverter's in there too and there's a towel- and clothes-drying line over the engine.

Edited July 19, 2021 by Athy

[noddyboater]

1 hour ago, Tracy D'arth said:

The problems I would have as a live aboard with a vintage engine in the mid boat position are the raised rear floor to cover the prop shaft and the loss of 8 or 10 feet of the cabin to the shrine that is a classic engine hole.

I'd trade a bit of headroom to have the engine in the proper place any day. Having just spent a couple of long days moving a boat from Keadby to Willington that had a HRW3 in a stern engine room I can confirm that's definitely not the best place. Pardon?

And I'm a short arse anyway,  under 6' in my heels.

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, Athy said:

 

Our engine room is between five and six feet long and it's as much a gain as a loss, as equipment such as jerry cans are kept in there, the inverter's in there too and there's a towel- and clothes-drying line over the engine.

You can't move in my engine room, if I didn't have it I would have to tow a butty

3 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

The problems I would have as a live aboard with a vintage engine in the mid boat position are the raised rear floor to cover the prop shaft  

Which is why I installed a hydraulic drive system. No long shaft just 3 pipes

[booke23]

13 hours ago, NB DW2 said:

I've read bits about them on this forum.  They're not great for charging batteries, so I understand, unless the engine is under load.

 

They are not great for heating a calorifier when not under load. Perhaps this is what you've read, but this is easily remedied with a dual 12v/240v immersion heater.....the 12v side can be switched on when the engine is running and the 240v can be used when on a shore line. 

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, booke23 said:

 

They are not great for heating a calorifier when not under load. Perhaps this is what you've read, but this is easily remedied with a dual 12v/240v immersion heater.....the 12v side can be switched on when the engine is running and the 240v can be used when on a shore line. 

 

Are not certain engines oft quoted as having 1:2 pulley ratios (rather than 2:1) so they are running at 50% of engine revs and are unable to be geared up enough to effectively run an alternator ?

 

A 'put-put' engine running at 800rpm and giving the fan belt 400rpm is going to need a huge pulley on the alternator, which by all accounts is often impossible to fit.

[Athy]

43 minutes ago, booke23 said:

 

They are not great for heating a calorifier when not under load.  

This is certainly notour experience with the Gardner, though admittedly I don't know how its water-heating performance compares with that of a Lister, Russell Newbery and sp on because I've never had one. Ours heats the water in the calorifier efficiently when running in neutral.

[noddyboater]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Are not certain engines oft quoted as having 1:2 pulley ratios (rather than 2:1) so they are running at 50% of engine revs and are unable to be geared up enough to effectively run an alternator ?

 

A 'put-put' engine running at 800rpm and giving the fan belt 400rpm is going to need a huge pulley on the alternator, which by all accounts is often impossible to fit.

That's why you run the belt directly on the flywheel. 

[Lily Rose]

On 16/07/2021 at 14:43, Athy said:

No, milk bottles, washed before re-use of course.

 

Me too!

 

I put the start date on them and frequently replace the older ones with newer ones (easy to do as we buy two 4 pint bottles of milk each week). The old ones are then taken home for the recycling bin.

 

We used to use our integral water tank for drinking water until I got inside, cleaned it out and gave it 2 or 3 coats of Black Jack. I then decided to use bottles for drinking water just in case there was anything dodgy leaching out of the paint. If there was it's probably long gone by now but we've got into the habit of using milk bottles. They are sturdier than clear plastic bottles and being HDPE are, I believe, safer.

 

https://oureverydaylife.com/which-plastics-are-safe-to-reuse-4900426.html

 

If we ever start to run low on drinking water then we would use tank water for the kettle and keep the drinking water for cold drinks. This almost never happens though.

 

[Athy]

13 minutes ago, Lily Rose said:

 

Me too!

 

I put the start date on them and frequently replace the older ones with newer ones (easy to do as we buy two 4 pint bottles of milk each week). The old ones are then taken home for the recycling bin.

 

We used to use our integral water tank for drinking water until I got inside, cleaned it out and gave it 2 or 3 coats of Black Jack. I then decided to use bottles for drinking water just in case there was anything dodgy leaching out of the paint. If there was it's probably long gone by now but we've got into the habit of using milk bottles. They are sturdier than clear plastic bottles and being HDPE are, I believe, safer.

 

https://oureverydaylife.com/which-plastics-are-safe-to-reuse-4900426.html

 

If we ever start to run low on drinking water then we would use tank water for the kettle and keep the drinking water for cold drinks. This almost never happens though.

 

Apart from the "blacking the tank" bit, I could have written that, even down to our typical milk purchase per week!

[MPR]

1 hour ago, Lily Rose said:

 

we've got into the habit of using milk bottles. They are sturdier than clear plastic bottles and being HDPE are, I believe, safer.

 

Food grade plastic water cans are not expensive and a rinse out with Milton at the end of the season saw ours last at least 10 years.

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

5 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Are not certain engines oft quoted as having 1:2 pulley ratios (rather than 2:1) so they are running at 50% of engine revs and are unable to be geared up enough to effectively run an alternator ?

 

A 'put-put' engine running at 800rpm and giving the fan belt 400rpm is going to need a huge pulley on the alternator, which by all accounts is often impossible to fit.

My engine pulley is 16" as near as I can tell (its a bit dark and mucky at the front of the engine but within an inch) and the alternator is a standard pulley that came with it. I get maximum output below 800rpm

[ditchcrawler]

5 hours ago, Athy said:

 Ours heats the water in the calorifier efficiently when running in neutral.

Mine needs a bit of load to do that well, Not a problem as we normally cruise every day. But the easiest way if you have an immersion heater is not bother with a 12 volt one but run the 240 volt one from the inverter while the engine is running or even if you have loads of solar

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

My engine pulley is 16" as near as I can tell (its a bit dark and mucky at the front of the engine but within an inch) and the alternator is a standard pulley that came with it. I get maximum output below 800rpm

 

Maximum alternator output is generally around 6000 rpm and in many instances it is not possible (as dicussed here many times) to get even 4000 rpm. with a vintage engine.

 

If the pulley is doing 400rpm, and the alternator pulley is 3" then you'd need a 30" pulley to turn the alternator over at 4,000 rpm and 54" to achieve 6000 rpm.

[ditchcrawler]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Maximum alternator output is generally around 6000 rpm and in many instances it is not possible (as dicussed here many times) to get even 4000 rpm. with a vintage engine.

 

If the pulley is doing 400rpm, and the alternator pulley is 3" then you'd need a 30" pulley to turn the alternator over at 4,000 rpm and 54" to achieve 6000 rpm.

With LA  batteries how long does an alternator normally give full output.?