Competent Surveyor Needed - Covering Cheshire

[Keith M]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

And in my experience it is even worse for those home-builds who make a self-declaration of compliance never having even looked at any specifications, and just shrug their shoulders and say "its only a Category D muddy ditch, paperwork is irrelevant"

Very sadly most professional builder take very little notice if any, to date I have been involved with Four court actions. And not one of the builders won. with significate damaged being paid.

I just wish the people who buy these craft would use trading standards than let these called professionals get away with it. 

Within the industry we are working to turn things around.

[Alan de Enfield]

9 minutes ago, Keith M said:

Very sadly most professional builder take very little notice if any, to date I have been involved with Four court actions. And not one of the builders won. with significate damaged being paid.

I just wish the people who buy these craft would use trading standards than let these called professionals get away with it. 

Within the industry we are working to turn things around.

 

I cannot give a double greeny, so have a big-un.

 

 

 

Edited July 15, 2021 by Alan de Enfield

[Keith M]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I cannot give a double greeny, so have a big-un.

 

 

 

Thank You.
I had a good laugh.

[Richard10002]

5 hours ago, Nightwatch said:

With equal respect, the toilet wasn’t retaining water in the bowl. The water pump was just not sealed and was leaking. A switch would have disclosed that. The electrics were part dismantled. A Sterling system.

 

I believe the surveyor, on my behalf, in return for a fair wedge of readies, look out for these sort of things. If they don’t, that’s fine. Hull survey from now on.

Just had an insurance hull survey. Excellent value. You have to pay people to do things you can’t. But I soon found the missed defects. Anyway that was early 16 years ago.

In which case, where the leaks were obvious to anyone who looked, you had a piss poor surveyor, which doesn't necessarily mean that full surveys are a waste of money in general.

 

My survey in 2011 by Steve Hands was excellent. He identified everything that was wrong, or that was going wrong, and I still refer to his detailed survey today.

[David Mack]

5 hours ago, Keith M said:

Using the current Boat Conformity Check list as found within the BMEEA C Of P which is soon to be reviewed. 

 

5 hours ago, Keith M said:

I have have completed Boat Conformity inspection on two new Craft using the new ISO 13297: 2021. 

 

5 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Presumably that was for the general wiring, but BS EN ISO 16315 would be the relevant spec for "Small Craft Electric Propulsion Systems"

 

Compliance with these and other standards might be greater if the documents were actually available to DIYers and small business boatbuilders, either free or at low cost.

Acquiring the full set of standards referred to in the RCD/RCR (and keeping them up to date) is a costly undertaking, even for a large business, and few libraries make them available to the public.

[Alan de Enfield]

39 minutes ago, David Mack said:

 

 

 

Compliance with these and other standards might be greater if the documents were actually available to DIYers and small business boatbuilders, either free or at low cost.

Acquiring the full set of standards referred to in the RCD/RCR (and keeping them up to date) is a costly undertaking, even for a large business, and few libraries make them available to the public.

 

Its a reasonable point,. but it is the price of doing business, we had to buy 100s of standards (even buying some of the ones I had written) covering all types of cables from DEF-Stan to NCB, to BS / ISO. We had a small room shelved out as a library, its so much easier now with Pdfs.

 

Why should a 'small boatbuilder' be given additonal commercial advantage over a larger builder, who probably employs more people and pays more tax.

 

3 or 4 boat builders could easily form a syndicate and buy the specifications between themselves. 

 

If you want to be in business you need to do what you need to do. A commercial builder not bothering to comply with legal safety standards deserves not only closing down but a LONG jail sentence for endangerment of life.

At least a DIY builder is only endangering their own families lives - hence the 5 year period to give the boat chance to fail, or burst into flames. If it is still OK after 5 years it is presumed safe to put onto the open market.

Edited July 15, 2021 by Alan de Enfield

[David Mack]

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Why should a 'small boatbuilder' be given additonal commercial advantage over a larger builder, who proably employs more people and pays more tax.

Because a large boatbuilder buikding 100s of boats per year can spread the cost over that large number of boats, meaning the cost per boat is relatively low. A small boatbuilder building a handful of boats per year can't. Not so much a commercial advantage for the small boatbuilder as minimising the commercial disadvantage.

 

In the last firm I worked for we used to ask the client to supply or pay for standards that we may only have needed for their project. Many were happy to do so, their licensing arrangements with BSI or whoever providing for this. Others wouldn't, on the basis that they were paying for our specialist skills and that we should therefore already have the relevant standards. On occasions one of our team would have a copy of a standard from previous employment (but it might not be up to date). On other occasions the cost of acquiring the standard might mean we turned down the job as a result. 

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Because a large boatbuilder buikding 100s of boats per year can spread the cost over that large number of boats, meaning the cost per boat is relatively low. A small boatbuilder building a handful of boats per year can't. Not so much a commercial advantage for the small boatbuilder as minimising the commercial disadvantage.

 

 

So back to my suggestion of forming a 'library syndicate' and splitting the costs. 

The cost could be viewed as CapEx and depreciated over (say) 5 years.

 

5 boat builders building 10 boats per annum each, over 5 years the cost can be apportioned over 250 boats. and deducted from tax anyway.

 

Sometimes you need to think outside of the box.

[Keith M]

2 hours ago, David Mack said:

 

 

 

Compliance with these and other standards might be greater if the documents were actually available to DIYers and small business boatbuilders, either free or at low cost.

Acquiring the full set of standards referred to in the RCD/RCR (and keeping them up to date) is a costly undertaking, even for a large business, and few libraries make them available to the public.

The BMEEA C of P is readily available to any one, one cost around £120.00 this is two complete ISO plus many guidance notes plus other additional information I do not consider this an expensive document.  

[David Mack]

27 minutes ago, Keith M said:

The BMEEA C of P is readily available to any one, one cost around £120.00 this is two complete ISO plus many guidance notes plus other additional information I do not consider this an expensive document.  

Really??

The only reference I can find on the BMEEA website to getting a copy is in the Rogues Gallery pages, where it says the code is available from British Marine. And after some searching their website I find this:

"Exclusive to British Marine members". And British Marine membership is only available to companies (at a minimum cost of £240 + VAT per year).

 

So how does "anyone" get a copy?

[Keith M]

Simply contact BM Technical department and asking to purchase to copy BMEEA C of P.

 

To me that does not look like the BMEEA website but the BM website.

[David Mack]

10 hours ago, Keith M said:

Simply contact BM Technical department and asking to purchase to copy BMEEA C of P.

 

To me that does not look like the BMEEA website but the BM website.

It is the BM website. The BMEEA website makes various references to the existence of the code, but the only reference I could find as to how to obtain a copy was buried deep in the site and simply said it is available from British Marine.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

It is the BM website. The BMEEA website makes various references to the existence of the code, but the only reference I could find as to how to obtain a copy was buried deep in the site and simply said it is available from British Marine.

 

Even if they have to join at £240 and pay the £40  for the specifications thats only £280.

If they are building 10 boats per annum I'm sure they can recoup the cost in one year, its only £28 per boat. Amortise over 5 years and it under £6 per boat.

If they go bust spending an extra £28 per boat (which could easily be recouped in the selling price) then they deserve to fail