Liveaboard security, etc.

[Bishop Brennan]

Living aboard, continuously cruising is what I'm aiming for. But one important topic I rarely see covered in any detail is that of ongoing security, hassle from the public, and ominous goings on, and I'd like to get an understanding of what to expect.

 

I know it sounds a bit paranoid, but my worst fear is waking up to an intruder who has broken in whilst I'm asleep. Another would be wanton vandalism, cutting mooring ropes for a laugh, arson, or mindless aggression, such as the type some vanlifers experience (getting egged, rubbish thrown at their vehicles, etc). One vanlifer couple posted a story about a time parked in a layby. At 2am a car pulled in, and a bloke was hovering around outside their motorhome, walking around it for a fair while before eventually driving off. 

 

I'm after people's experiences with the general public, getting grief without good reason, break ins, or any weird or dodgy characters hanging around towpaths or boats of a late evening that give cause for concern. Do you sleep well when randomly moored up by a public towpath? Was it something you were anxious about? If so, when did it eventually subside? Or has it not? What's the dodgiest thing you've experienced?

 

 

 

 

[MarkH2159]

I am a sigle handed CC'r at the moment and can understand there may be issues in certain parts of the country and indeed there are lots of warnings of where not to moor especially in some urban areas, but generally I have not encountered any real problems.

I have had kids let go my bow mooring on one occasion and met some nutters on the towpath, but apart from an inquisitive cat I have had no unwanted visitors.

Choosing and planning where to moor is the key and I prefer to stay 'out of town' if I can.

Mooring with other boats is also a good option if you plan to leave the boat for any length of time.

My boat is fitted with a 360 degree security camera and a remote entry alarm system but fortunately they have not yet been used in anger.

As for sleeping, never had it so good.

[Yellowback]

The biggest problem with towpath mooring, are your fellow boaters. Exhaust and generator fumes being pumped into your boat day and night by prats who insist on mooring fender to fender, even in the remotest location !

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Boat security against break in is pretty rubbish and they are trivially easy to get in to. Similar to houses were forty, or fifty years ago before double glazing, window locks and decent door locks. There are several types of people who might cause problems.

1. Drunks. Usually minimal trouble. Might get your mooring lines released. Lots of shouting, anything on the roof that isn't nailed down can end up in the cut. Worse when there are several, when they egg each other on. Minimised by not mooring near pubs and in city centres. Minimal danger to you personally, unless a confrontation goes bad.
2. Kids. Bored and looking for something to do. More likely to come across in the outer suburbs of cities and towns. Seem to be less of a problem than in decades past as they are mostly indoors with computer games and staring at their phones. Day term time reduces this, though the kids you meet are then the really feral ones who are bunking off school. Rainy evenings are good for mooring. Works for avoiding drunks too.
3. Thieves. Again, seems to be less of a problem. There is so much stuff now that the relative value of stolen goods to them has dropped. Opportunistic mainly, so not leaving stuff outside, or anything valuable on view and making your boat slightly harder to break in to than the one moored next along is the best way. Lots of advice with a search on the forum. I've had one thing stolen from the boat roof (a ladder). The only thing stolen from inside was some of the cats food by another cat!
4. Folk on the cut with assorted mental health and substance abuse issues. Boaters and on the towpath. Mostly harmless and OK people. Very small probability of one being dangerous, but this isn't limited to boating. Early morning travel reduces the numbers of these you meet as they are still sleeping off whatever they did the day before.

Attitude to the people you meet seems to count for a lot. Friendly, but with a bit of reserve seems to work.

Edited July 11, 2021 by Jen-in-Wellies

[tehmarks]

I've lived aboard 2015-2018 and 2020-present, as a CCer in various areas (southern GU, Macclesfield/Peak Forest, and now on the Shroppie) and I've never once had a problem. Not with vandalism, not with kids, not with drunks. I've twice had stuff nicked from outside (sledge hammer in the well deck and a chimney brush on the roof), and that was almost certainly fellow boaters both times. I once even accidentally left a rucksack with my laptop inside on the roof in Watford while on a 12 hour shift at work, and it was still there and undisturbed when I got back.

 

Security: if you have windows, you will not be able to secure your boat (unless you go to the extent of shuttering them). But that's no different to any house, where the windows are equally breakable and the contents (/occupants) equally vulnerable. I've spent a substantial amount of time living in tents with expensive gear (climbing, not homeless!), and I've never had someone go in or take anything while I've been out or away. On the flip side, I've been on the receiving end of countless unrequested acts of kindness, including one boater donating a pin in my absence to bolster my shonky mooring. People are, generally, surprisingly nice and honest. Those who aren't will be 'heads whether you're on a boat or in the street.

 

I have a theory that those who find trouble everywhere are good at provoking it. A friendly smile and a good attitude to all that you meet seems to go a long way towards defusing problems before they even germinate.

[pearley]

13 minutes ago, tehmarks said:

I have a theory that those who find trouble everywhere are good at provoking it. A friendly smile and a good attitude to all that you meet seems to go a long way towards defusing problems before they even germinate.

Reading the posts I was going to say that. Having been CCers for 14 years with lots of hiring and share boating before that, we've had no more trouble than when we lived in a house. 

 

But friend, also liveaboard, has loads of trouble when moored in places we've been. But he can be aggressive.

 

Edited to add we never lock the back doors when we are onboard.

Edited July 11, 2021 by pearley

[Chagall]

14 minutes ago, pearley said:

 

 

Even overnight?  I wouldn't have added that information, the forum isn't comprised of entirely honest boaters! 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 11, 2021 by Chagall
hah... took out information!... and grammar, again!

[system 4-50]

There are security weaknesses inherent in narrowboat design and they are mostly not aired on this open-to-the-public forum, which is good.  The best we can do is state the obvious:

1. Be clear about the vandalisism/theft threat you want to guard against, ie opportunistic or planned, towpath user or other boater, etc

2. Avoid conspicuous display of easily-tradable valuables, alcohol, or food.

3. Use security devices that are not themselves conspicuous. The less that an intruder knows about the device before he starts, the harder his job is.

4. Use multiple devices where possible.

5. Be consistent. eg There is no point in a massive lock on a door with weak hinges.

6. Don't use devices that reduce your safety eg impede exit in an emergency.

7. There is not much scope for hiding when you are away from the boat for a long time, but there is no harm in minimising obvious signs of absence.

8. Ensure that if one of your security devices fail, you are not stuck, either inside or outside your boat.

 

[Arthur Marshall]

Interestingly, and possibly counter intuitively  a padlock on your doors reduces security. They are easy to break and just advertise that no-one is on board.

In a long boating time,  I've had ropes cut once, a bargepole and a genny nicked (the latter by a gang who pinched a dozen off our mooring in a night) twenty years ago, and been broken into twice, both times in my absence by a tramp looking for somewhere to kip and who otherwise did no harm and stole nothiing.

It doesn't seem any more dodgy than living in a house, and not worth worrying about, though I do keep a baseball bat by the bed just in case. It's only ever been used to prop the door open.

[Bishop Brennan]

There's some interesting insights and advice here, thank you all. I like the insights regarding padlocks, i.e a lock advertises absence; big locks little hinges etc. I'd not thought of those small details. And keeping food and alcohol out of sight, I'd never have thought that. 

 

Regarding the theory that those who find trouble everywhere are good at provoking it, I couldn't agree more. I'm a firm believer in the law of attraction. I work with people who seem forever to be attracting drama, and they're obviously looking for, and thrive on it. 

 

 

[Stilllearning]

I would suggest a boat with portholes, steel doors front back and side, and then chill, and enjoy life.

[David Mack]

When away from the boat, do you leave the curtains closed or open? Closed hides your possessions, but also may suggest you have something to conceal. Open leaves your taste and tidiness (or lack thereof) on display and feels less private.

[BWM]

Your chances of encountering trouble of any kind will be reduced to near zero by mooring in the right locations, and that won't restrict choice in all but a few areas. 

[smiler]

Get a dog !!!!

[Rob-M]

We have only felt the need to move the boat on an evening once due to thinking there might be trouble. It was the last day of the football season and fans from opposing teams were in bars opposite sides of the cut throwing bottles at each other. We thought when they leave the pubs they were most likely going to walk past us so we moved further down the cut to be the other side of the pubs and slightly further away.

[Ray T]

6 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Interestingly, and possibly counter intuitively  a padlock on your doors reduces security. They are easy to break and just advertise that no-one is on board.

In a long boating time,  I've had ropes cut once, a bargepole and a genny nicked (the latter by a gang who pinched a dozen off our mooring in a night) twenty years ago, and been broken into twice, both times in my absence by a tramp looking for somewhere to kip and who otherwise did no harm and stole nothiing.

It doesn't seem any more dodgy than living in a house, and not worth worrying about, though I do keep a baseball bat by the bed just in case. It's only ever been used to prop the door open.

 

Unless you can prove  it is used to play baseball it could be construed as an offensive weapon, if it is used in anger, even though it may be  for self protection.

 

I have a nephew who is a police officer and it is him who gave me the above information

 

Better to have a Calder & Hebble spike, there is a appropriate reason for having one of these on a boat, or even a brass tiller.

 

Edited July 11, 2021 by Ray T

[Bishop Brennan]

4 hours ago, BWM said:

Your chances of encountering trouble of any kind will be reduced to near zero by mooring in the right locations, and that won't restrict choice in all but a few areas. 

Would you mind elaborating on how to choose the right location to moor? I assume the primary thing would be avoiding urban mooring, but what would some of the other things be? Some tips would be very useful. 

[Tracy D'arth]

15 minutes ago, Ray T said:

 

Unless you can prove  it is used to play baseball it could be construed as an offensive weapon, if it is used in anger, even though it may be  for self protection.

 

I have a nephew who is a police officer and it is him who gave me the above information

 

Better to have a Calder & Hebble spike, there is a appropriate reason for having one of these on a boat, or even a brass tiller.

 

My hand spike lives at the side of my bed against the wall. Only used it once to batter a thug caught in the cratch at night. Police were not interested as it is "a weapon of opportunity" with every right to be on the vessel.

 

After that I painted it and wrote on it "C&H Handspike"

[Alan de Enfield]

10 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

After that I painted it and wrote on it "C&H Handspike"

 

"Handspike, Criminals & Hoodlums for use on"

[blackrose]

12 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Boat security against break in is pretty rubbish and they are trivially easy to get in to. 

 

That's a bit of a generalisation. If that's all it was meant to be then fine, but boat security doesn't have to be rubbish and boats don't have to be easy to break into. It really depends on what sort of windows, hatch and door security one installs.

 

Ultimately someone with a cordless angle grinder will get into any steel boat no matter what sort of security is fitted. Equipped profressional burglars break into houses where pickings richer, while boat break ins tend to be done by opportunists carrying no more than a large screwdriver to lever off hasps that have been screwed into wood.

 

 

6 hours ago, David Mack said:

When away from the boat, do you leave the curtains closed or open? Closed hides your possessions, but also may suggest you have something to conceal. Open leaves your taste and tidiness (or lack thereof) on display and feels less private.

 

Closed. 

[BWM]

14 hours ago, Midnight Ember said:

Would you mind elaborating on how to choose the right location to moor? I assume the primary thing would be avoiding urban mooring, but what would some of the other things be? Some tips would be very useful. 

Certainly staying clear of urban areas is a good start, but as a rule you can quickly establish the better locations by talking to boaters in and around the places you visit. After a time it becomes easy to make an informed choice - litter, graffiti, discarded alcohol containers and run down structures all point to potential problems, on the flip side you might see relaxed walkers, tidy boats, well maintained surroundings, etc.

 Most urban areas have safe zones or the canal is far enough from the centre to be a safe bet.

  In all but the worst places the potential bother is seasonal, oiks don't like the cold and rain of winter and a muddy towpath will act as a repellent to most!