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More volockie hassle


nicknorman

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10 minutes ago, Athy said:

Not really - those are from the New and Old Testaments respectively. CART's two pronouncements are both from their current testament.

 

 

?

 

But they are both in the current published version but under differing sections, the same as C&RTs document.

 

Having looked thru the new T&Cs I cannot see the original  vollies are there to "assist boaters"

 

If you say it is still in the 3rd edition of the 2021 T&Cs (15.6.21 V.2) I'm sure you are correct, but would you be kind enough to quote the paragraph / clause number.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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I got into a discussion (totally unheated as it was an "out of interest" discussion with a lock keeper and related to another Part time lock keeper on the Thames who is incredibly irritating.

 

Anyway my question to the real lock keeper, unrelated to my boat,  was about single boats in locks and how the relevant legislation specifically says you can leave engines running if yours is the only boat in the lock. 

 

It also says you have to follow instructions of lock keeper "if reasonable". In this instance the irritating part time keeper was shouting at the person on the only boat in the lock that he had to stop the engine. I was just walking past and as I know the real keeper who was in his office and he's cool I asked him about it. He was unsure but interested and said she (part time lock keeper) was indeed a bit of a ballache. 

 

Got me wondering if one person's reasonable is another person's unreasonable and this could apply similarly with the volockies. 

 

Giving them full control like that is unreasonable. 

 

 

Also if you disobeyed a volunteer and the result was an accident which dismembered and killed dozens of children and disabled people then what would the insurance say about it? 

 

Similar the other way around ie are the volockies adequately insured to be in charge of boats while in locks? 

 

 

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About five years ago. Foxton Locks. Ascending locks. Lots of gongoozlers. Second in command working locks.

 

Volockie shouted to S.I.C. To put windlass on the spindle using the small hole. Followed by, “you look experienced enough to know that”. Looked around the crowd for appreciation.

 

Very rare occasion, but it sticks in the mind.

 

coming up the last lock before the Swan at Fradley. I saw wifey getting a lecture. I asked once through what it was all about. He was telling the wife how locks work, where the water comes from, how old the canal is etc. etc. Must have been his first day or summat. 
 

Coming up Stenson (smell check please) Volockies in attendance. Wife assisting volockies, one turns to wife and asks are we doing okay, hubby doesn’t look happy. Reply, he always looks like that. The fact was, I was happy but just not comfortable with the vicious nature of the lock and was being observant. On this occasion I was more than happy to have assistance.

Norty nasty lock it is too! Respect.

Edited by Nightwatch
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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I assume that everyone has read the new Licence Terms and Conditions, you know, section 11.2  the part where it says "The Boat Licence does not give You any priority of passage on the Waterway. You must follow the directions of Our employees and volunteers".

 

That can be read on a number of levels, and is one of the several remaining requirements that NABO are trying to get removed or amended.

Which as in the OP's case, can lead to a bit of a fracas which in turn could lead to CRT 'taking action on your licence'. This also NABO are pushing against.

 

Edited by wandering snail
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32 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

 

coming up the last lock before the Swan at Fradley. I saw wifey getting a lecture. I asked once through what it was all about. He was telling the wife how locks work, where the water comes from, how old the canal is etc. etc. Must have been his first day or summat.

That's why my Mrs usually drives on flights where the lockies are, that way it's just me dealing with the sexist comments about women boaters.

 

Most of the lockies in our area are fine, the ones at Tardebigge always ask before launching in. We normally decline as we've got a well worked system, last time one of them helped on the lock we were just emptying he could see the confusion in my face as I ended up the wrong side of the lock as far as my brain was concerned and straight away said "i've messed up your system haven't I ?" then he spent the rest of the flight just setting ahead which was really helpful.

 

A couple of the lockies at Hanbury can be a bit overbearing, but the locks all have side ponds so I understand why they tend to take over, a lot going through there have no idea how to use them.

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1 hour ago, frangar said:

Ive had several run ins with the vols at Hatton over the years....from them telling me I shouldn't lower paddles in the correct manner....hatton are designed to self lower...to turning a lock round on me as I approached it for a boat several locks away in the other direction....I made my thoughts known on both occasions and was told Id be reported to CRT....to which I replied go ahead.....that wasn't well received!

 

I will say that last year things had improved and the vol just set the lock ahead which was far more preferable and to my mind how they should work....I shall see if its the same this year!

That’s how they worked it the next day when we went up the rest of the flight, they worked as a team setting  ahead for about 5 locks each and then passed over to the next one, all they did on the lock with the board was to close the bottom gate before going off to set the next one.  It is clearly just some who do not want to actually be helpful, but have their own agenda.

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2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I assume that everyone has read the new Licence Terms and Conditions, you know, section 11.2  the part where it says "The Boat Licence does not give You any priority of passage on the Waterway. You must follow the directions of Our employees and volunteers".

 

That can be read on a number of levels, and is one of the several remaining requirements that NABO are trying to get removed or amended.

My assumption would be that is intended for places like Foxton where the lock keepers, employee or volunteer, are deciding on how to schedule the boats through.  But I think the wording does  need to be changed to make it clear. 

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15 hours ago, nicknorman said:


yes in general I agree with you. I had a weird encounter last year on a Scottish country road. Came up behind a van doing about 40 (60 limit) and on reaching a long straight, I overtook him and carried on at 60. Then came a series of tight bends at which point I saw in my mirror that the van was right up my chuff just a couple of feet away. Having a 280hp car I initially tried to put some distance between us but soon realised that was a bad idea so slowed to a stop. He stopped behind me and we both got out. He berated me for overtaking him because apparently a chip had been thrown up and hit his windscreen. He then went on to say that I had been driving too fast around the corners and he had a dashcam to prove it to the police. Which seemed pretty barking mad because the dash cam would have shown him driving very dangerously close to me. I pointed this out but he didn’t seem to get it! He was obviously intoxicated by the “power” of his new dashcam toy. Eventually I murdered him and buried him by the roadside in a shallow grave, and carried on my merry way.

 

oh and by the way, you will notice that I haven’t posted the volocky’s picture on here. Though it is tempting…

Unless you were spinning the wheels, the speed at which the chip hit his windscreen was  a function of the van's speed rather than your car. 

 

Explaining this on the occasion may not help.

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9 minutes ago, john6767 said:

My assumption would be that is intended for places like Foxton where the lock keepers, employee or volunteer, are deciding on how to schedule the boats through.  But I think the wording does  need to be changed to make it clear. 

The efficiency or otherwise of the CRT personnel at Foxton is the stuff for a whole new multipage thread.......

 

Edited by frangar
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11 minutes ago, frangar said:

The efficiency or otherwise of the CRT personnel at Foxton is the stuff for a whole new multipage thread.......

 

Don’t disagree, but you have to accept that with the volume of traffic it does needs someone organising it.  And therefore you have to accept your place in the queue.

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23 minutes ago, john6767 said:

My assumption would be that is intended for places like Foxton where the lock keepers, employee or volunteer, are deciding on how to schedule the boats through.  But I think the wording does  need to be changed to make it clear. 

Putting it into the terms and conditions makes it applicable everywhere and will undoubtedly lead to many more instances like that described by the OP.

 

Keith

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19 minutes ago, frangar said:

The efficiency or otherwise of the CRT personnel at Foxton is the stuff for a whole new multipage thread.......

 

Thing is, most of us only go through Foxton every five years or so, and we need a bit of instruction.  The vast majority of boaters are inexperienced, and this is what CRT have to cater for. This understably irritates the few of us who generally know what we'ree doing, but the lockies have no way of knowing which are which, and there are enough inexperienced idiots in captain's hats who think they know it all to muddle the waters even more. It's not just the lockies who can be petty minded and showing off.

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Single handing, the only concern I had was a couple of years ago on one of the Thames locks. I was first in the lock and moved to the left as directed, a cruiser came in behind me and stayed to the right. The lockie shut the gates and proceeded to help the crew on the cruiser.

 

I had a bit of trouble coming to rest near to the ladders , but finally managed and climbed out with my centre rope. By the time I'd secured the boat, the paddles were being opened, so I stood and steadied boat just using the centre rope.

 

When the lock was almost full, lockie came around to me and told me that I should be using 2 ropes and my engine should have been switched off. I pointed out that I only had time to climb out before he opened the paddles. He did apologise and said that he should have realised I was single handed.

 

I will just add that when a lockie is on, I always treat the lock as though I'm doing it myself and help where I can. If the lockie advises that I should stay on my boat, then that is what I do.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Steilsteven said:

Putting it into the terms and conditions makes it applicable everywhere and will undoubtedly lead to many more instances like that described by the OP.

 

Keith

Will cover things like passing boats through areas where repairs are going on too. Almost impossible to write it into t&cs to cover every eventuality, or to avoid it being misused by jobsworths. But you can see why it's required - I heard there were boats going through the breach repairs at Northwich refusing to follow the instructions, and there have been a few fights at Grindley Brook...

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12 minutes ago, john6767 said:

Don’t disagree, but you have to accept that with the volume of traffic it does needs someone organising it.  And therefore you have to accept your place in the queue.

Seems to me that CRT are missing a revenue raising opportunity here. Similar to the airlines priority boarding schemes, CRT could levy a license surcharge, which grants the holder the benefit to bypass queues, heading straight passed any annoying delays at locks and other attractions.

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6 minutes ago, Phil. said:

Seems to me that CRT are missing a revenue raising opportunity here. Similar to the airlines priority boarding schemes, CRT could levy a license surcharge, which grants the holder the benefit to bypass queues, heading straight passed any annoying delays at locks and other attractions.

Good idea!?

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6 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Thing is, most of us only go through Foxton every five years or so, and we need a bit of instruction.  The vast majority of boaters are inexperienced, and this is what CRT have to cater for. This understably irritates the few of us who generally know what we'ree doing, but the lockies have no way of knowing which are which, and there are enough inexperienced idiots in captain's hats who think they know it all to muddle the waters even more. It's not just the lockies who can be petty minded and showing off.

Its not the instruction as much as the lack of sense when there are multiple boats waiting top and bottom....they dont seem to have a coherent system like say Mick & Crystal did who were the last full time lockies....they often have no idea of what boats are next or indeed in what direction they are travelling...Crystal might have been direct with her instructions but there was good reason behind it and there was never the queues you get now....often with boats being told they might have to wait until the next day for a passage. There is also not efficient use of water resources now either with the side pounds either overflowing or with barely enough water in them for safe operation.

 

 

8 minutes ago, Phil. said:

Seems to me that CRT are missing a revenue raising opportunity here. Similar to the airlines priority boarding schemes, CRT could levy a license surcharge, which grants the holder the benefit to bypass queues, heading straight passed any annoying delays at locks and other attractions.

Im sure its been discussed.....The Hudson owners club was after a bulk membership discount......

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57 minutes ago, Phil. said:

Seems to me that CRT are missing a revenue raising opportunity here. Similar to the airlines priority boarding schemes, CRT could levy a license surcharge, which grants the holder the benefit to bypass queues, heading straight passed any annoying delays at locks and other attractions.

A fast pass like at the theme parks, I’ll have one of those sign me up.

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4 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Yes - but that is not unusual. It allows them to take action irrespective of doing, or not doing something.

 

Even the Bible has conflicting instructions

 

Luke 6:29. states, “If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also.” 

 

Leviticus 24:19-22 states  "And whoever causes an injury to a neighbor must receive the same kind of injury in return: Broken bone for broken bone, eye for eye, tooth for tooth. Anyone who injures another person must be injured in the same way in return".

The New Testament states that because of the death of Jesus he has taken the punishment that the Old Testament demanded. Just one way to explain the apparent contradictions. 

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59 minutes ago, zimzim said:

Just came up the Wilmcote flight....no sign of any vlockies, strangely!

 

Us too. Blissfully quiet. Good to meet you in the basin.

 

 

Well HIP HIP HOORAY! We ascended Wilmcote flight today, not a volockie in sight. It was so relaxing! Well as relaxing as 16 somewhat knackered locks can be when the copilot is incapacitated and can’t wind paddles or move gates.

Nice couple of guys on the boat in front who back-opened several paddles for us. Although we had helped get them into the bottom lock where they were stuck by a not fully opening gate. Basically I rammed them up the back end with my enormous fender, if you know what I mean.

Edited by nicknorman
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