Trouble starting my new generator… any recommendations?

[cheesegas]

At work we have a bunch of Stephill SSD6000S canopy generators, which use genuine Yanmar L100 engines, the same one yours is based off.  Lots of sound insulation in the enclosure and two big exhaust silencers. They weigh about 200kg with no fuel. Noise levels are still fairly high even for a commercial silenced genny, I wouldn't want one running near me for a long time, yours will possibly be a lot louder as it'll have less of a canopy with less sound insulation. Ok for a building site or if you're moored in the middle of nowhere.

 

Anyway, these happily start on the key without the decompressor very very easily even below freezing, but the battery needs to be fully charged. If you've left it for a year, the battery's gone flat and may not respond to a charge. Get a new one and try with that. On the head is a red decompressor lever which helps with a slightly dead battery. Flip it, turn the key, wait til the starter gets the engine up to speed and then flip the lever back. Should start then.

 

It's worth flushing the tank, sump and fuel lines as it's common for dirt and swarf to be in Chinese engines from the factory. Quality varies so much with Chinese engines, I've bought Lifan and Zongshen engines which are excellent quality, clean inside and almost as reliable as a Honda. (put almost 15,000 miles on my little minibike before I sold it, nothing other than oil changes!). However, no name stuff looks similar from the outside but the casting have holes and metal chunks left inside from machining. You may have a no-name engine in there or a branded engine, which is more likely to be reliable.

edit: just seen the model number suggests it's sold as a 8kva generator. There's no way it can output this, the engine simply can't output the power. The non-AVR Stephills will output 50hz 6000w resistive but the voltage will drop to 200v and they get loud.

Edited June 29, 2021 by cheesegas

[Alan de Enfield]

30 minutes ago, cheesegas said:

They weigh about 200kg with no fuel.

 

That is going to take some lifting on and off the boat each day ................................

[Tracy D'arth]

36 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

That is going to take some lifting on and off the boat each day ................................

True, and a big splash when the neighbour shoves it into the canal in anger.

[cheesegas]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

That is going to take some lifting on and off the boat each day ................................

Yep…I’d imagine that his genny isn’t as heavy because there’s less steel in the canopy and less sound insulation. Stephill sets are pretty overbuilt, designed for heavy use on a building site. Still probably  a good 120kg though. 

[Sea Dog]

On 29/06/2021 at 17:00, Alan de Enfield said:

 

That is going to take some lifting on and off the boat each day ................................

Well, at least it'll not get stored under the bed like someone here was doing a while back...

 

[mrsmelly]

On 29/06/2021 at 17:38, Tracy D'arth said:

True, and a big splash when the neighbour shoves it into the canal in anger.

Which I have seen done by a boat neighbour after repeated requests over some days to not run the gennie after 8 and that was a so called silent honda model!! 

In support of Honda and their reliability when retrieved and dried out it still ran perfectly ?

[acdbox]

Hello all, sorry for not relying sooner, with my mental health, works on the boat and moving all at the same time, this is the soonest ive been able to reply. I hope you can hear my honesty and apologies there. Also not being at the boat when i have a computer at the moment makes it a little more difficult.

*But what i have tried thus far is recharged the battery on your recommendations, which made no difference.

*Ive established that the pictures how there should be a second fuel valve on the fuel filter but there isnt, just the one from my picture listed above and that is set to on.

*no matter what i do, the fuel gauge and volt meter always read flat.

*Next time im there ill attempt to do the start-decompression-start sequence

*Finally Tony Brook:s the oil possibly reads just on the maximum, did i read your message correctly in saying that if over, it might not start, or did you mean if it was too low it wouldnt start, sorry?

 

Im on the verge of getting a mechanic, but it just seems like i am missing something simple, at a guess from someone whom is intuitive but honest to say that they know nothing of engines, my suspicion is the fuel isnt getting round as the problem?

 

Any other suggestions for things to try when i am there next, I would be hugely grateful and can report back. Thanks for the Youtube video, explains the start decompression-start procedure perfectly so i understand.

[Tracy D'arth]

*no matter what i do, the fuel gauge and volt meter always read flat.

 

 

That could be a big clue.

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, acdbox said:

Any other suggestions for things to try when i am there next, I would be hugely grateful and can report back. Thanks for the Youtube video, explains the start decompression-start procedure perfectly so i understand.

 

 

A diesel engine is a very very simple mechanical device, it only needs 3 things to work :

 

Air

Fuel

Compression

 

Does it have an air filter ? Is it clear / clean ?

 

Is fuel getting thru to the injector unit ? (did you try disconnecting and sucking the fuel thru as I suggested earlier ? There is no bleed nuts and a review on amazon said the only way he could start it was to physically suck the fuel thru)

 

Is there compression (is it hard to turn the engine over ?)

Is the engine siezed uo from standing for so long ?

 

If you cannot get the engine to turn over with a fully charged battery (how do you know it is fully charged) try using a set of jump leads from the boat battery (or car battery if you have one)

 

If the engine can turn over, you have air and fuel then the 'laws of diesel combustion' say it must start.

 

[Tony Brooks]

They tend to cut out/refuse to run if the oil level is LOW.

 

If you have a boat then unless you are a very rich you will sooner or later find that you need a multimeter. I would suggest sooner would be a good idea. Preferably, one with a DC (not AC) ammeter clamp. Then use the DC voltmeter function to measure the battery voltage at est and also when cranking. I suspect that you will find its registers zero or very close to when trying to crank. As Alan says, try it with jump leads from the boat start battery.

 

 

[cheesegas]

First of all, what do you mean by turning over? Is the starter motor turning the engine but the engine is not starting? Or do you turn the key and nothing happens?

 

The fuel gauge is probably mechanical and not much to go wrong. Sounds silly but double check the fuel level in the tank. If it's run dry, you'll need to bleed the fuel system.

 

The Yanmar L100s are a bit of a pain to bleed as there's no bleed screw. As yours is electric start, I expect it'll have a fuel shutoff solenoid just above the injector pump on the side of the engine too.

 

If the starter is turning the engine but it's not starting, then to bleed...

 

Turn the fuel on, key off and make sure the red stop lever under the injection pump is pushed to the right. Then begin by taking the rubber fuel hose off the injector pump with a bean can ready to catch the fuel. It should flow freely, reconnect it if so.

 

Next, use a spanner (I think it's 12mm on the Yanmar) to loosen the high pressure fuel line on the injection pump. This has the metal pipe going from it. Undo it about half a turn and then crank the engine over until fuel squirts out next to the nut. Stay out of the way as it's under pressure! Tighten the nut again.

 

On the other end of the high pressure line at the top of the engine, do the same thing - slacken the nut, crank the engine until fuel comes out, tighten. This is usually enough to bleed the system.

 

If you're getting fuel to the injection pump via the rubber hose but not out the high pressure line, the stop solenoid is stuck. Check between battery negative and the terminal on the top of the solenoid for 12v with the key in the on position. If you don't have any voltage here, the problem's electrical. If you do, then the solenoid may be stuck. Temporarily disable it by unscrewing the solenoid with a spanner, remove the plunger and spring and then reinstall it. You should now have fuel going through, and you can carry on bleeding the engine.

 

I've found that the solenoids can stick closed in cold weather, and a weak battery isn't enough to pull it free even when warm. A sharp tap with the blunt end of the screwdriver usually sorts it.

 

edit: the Stephills don't have a low oil shutoff, just a light to indicate low pressure. If yours has a shutoff, it will prevent 12v from getting to the stop solenoid which cuts the fuel off. Removing the plunger temporarily will bypass this.

Edited July 5, 2021 by cheesegas

[acdbox]

No idea everybody… not a battery issue I have been diligent there with a multi metre and second portable gen to recharge it.

it cranks as if the battery is connected, but just doesn’t have any lights light up? Fuse have been checked. Replacement solenoid has been ordered, as it seems to be a fuel issue and I was told by an individual that the solenoid was running extremely hot, so I don’t know, if that’s due to too much cranking and/or it’s sieved. But thank you for your input, this far, I am seeking a mechanic, if the replacement solenoid fails. 🤗

will report back, once it starts for the first time.

thank you again

[Tam & Di]

Sorry to read of your woes, and the dispiriting replies you've had - it could still be something simple that would be obvious if you had a proper handbook. If you've had it for over a year it is probably out of whatever guarantee it was supposed to have, but it is still worth trying to get back via Amazon. I found them surprisingly good. Di bought a Chinese electric chain saw as she thought she'd do some pruning and our neighbour had one. It sat for about 3-4 months before I assembled it for her, and it failed almost immediately. I found that the battery was U/S and there was no suppliers address in the Amazon listing, but I clicked on a link in the ad which put me in touch with an Amazon person who had a replacement battery sent instantly with no quibble. So it's worth a try, and I hope you get somewhere with it.

 

Tam

[acdbox]

I wasnt complaining, sorry if it came across that way. the last topic i posted i received pinpoint help, this one i didnt. Just the way forums go, isnt it? Bu no 'cheesegas' comment about the solenoid has pointed me in that direction. When you are as lost as i am, haveing anything as a way forward helps get over the emotional aspect about being overwhelmed by something new and at least i could begin to tackle it and thats all helped me get to the point to realise that i need a mechanic, which i was far more reluctant to have done at that early stage. I now know, its beyond anything i can realistically try beyond the solenoid, but thats learning new things. I now know i can likely service the unit... possibly with one or 2 questions asked here, but that should save me alot going forward.

No complaints.

Thank you all

[Tonka]

Do you have to pull a lever to turn the generator off. If so has this lever been left in the pulled position and needs pushing back in to start. Had it happen when I first got a Petter Ab1w in a boat.

[acdbox]

Hi Tonka, no it’s got a key and is electric start. Is that what you meant, sorry?

[Tonka]

8 minutes ago, acdbox said:

Hi Tonka, no it’s got a key and is electric start. Is that what you meant, sorry?

Yes my bd3 has an electric start but to stop I have to pull a separate lever and then turn the ignition off when stopped.  So the stop part has to be pushed back in to enable restart

[David Mack]

The OP has referred to a solenoid. My guess is that on a product like this the engine stop control is operated by a solenoid which moves it to the start position when you turn the key to run, the solenoid remains powered while the engine is running, and then drops out, stopping the engine, when you turn the key to off. A failed solenoid (or its linkage to the injector pump) could well be the reason for the thing not starting.

[CompairHolman]

What is the starting procedure you are doing?

 

 

[rasputin]

put some more oil in

Edited July 13, 2021 by rasputin
but not too much

[cheesegas]

On 13/07/2021 at 11:30, acdbox said:

I wasnt complaining, sorry if it came across that way. the last topic i posted i received pinpoint help, this one i didnt. Just the way forums go, isnt it? Bu no 'cheesegas' comment about the solenoid has pointed me in that direction. When you are as lost as i am, haveing anything as a way forward helps get over the emotional aspect about being overwhelmed by something new and at least i could begin to tackle it and thats all helped me get to the point to realise that i need a mechanic, which i was far more reluctant to have done at that early stage. I now know, its beyond anything i can realistically try beyond the solenoid, but thats learning new things. I now know i can likely service the unit... possibly with one or 2 questions asked here, but that should save me alot going forward.

No complaints.

Thank you all

Have you tried removing the plunger from the solenoid as I mentioned? That will allow fuel to flow regardless of the position of the ignition switch, and you'll need to pull the red lever to the left to stop the engine.