Houdini hatch issue

[RickS]

Reading various posts I gather that houdini hatches can be problematic regarding water ingress.

I did have a small amount of condensation when I first bought the boat, which seemed to be solved by fitting the acrylic sheet that I found in a wardrobe.

It has a strip of rubber(?) or some similar material which is compressed when fixed in by two, rather crude, swivelling wooden thingys.

The problem is that the sheet has bowed, meaning that any water flows off to the side.

When I went to the boat yesterday there had clearly been some water dropping onto the mattress below causing a pale ring - which i am reasonably happy I can deal with. I assume that the hot sun initially helped to bow the sheet, followed by the very wet weather causing the condensation, is the problem.

I thought maybe four of the swivel fixings would help to restore the shape but had no idea what they may be called so Google couldn't help. Stupidly, I did not take a photo, nor did I bring one back to make others at home possibly.

Does anyone know what these fixings are called - if, indeed, they have a name - and where I can buy some please?

 

[Alan de Enfield]

28 minutes ago, Rick Savery said:

Does anyone know what these fixings are called

 

Turnbuckle ?

 

Either metal (usually factory made) or wooden (DIY)

 

W4 Metal Turnbuckle 35mm - Black - Caravan / Motorhome 5019328378116 | eBay

 

W4 Plastic Turnbuckle 35mm - Brown: Amazon.co.uk: Car & Motorbike

 

Black metal turnbuckle (camperlands.co.uk)

 

Brass TURN BUTTON LATCH Rabbit Hutch Shed Door Cage Cupboard Catch (4 x 38mm) 5019923826920 | eBay

 

Don't get confused with another type of turnbuckle 

 

 

 

 

 

I think (from your description) we had similar for storing the table against the wall.

See 'wooden turnbuckle' on the top edge of the table

 

 

Edited June 22, 2021 by Alan de Enfield

[Bee]

Turnbutton?  Bet it still dips in the middle. Might have to glue a couple of thin strips edgeways to make it a bit more rigid.

[RickS]

9 minutes ago, Bee said:

Turnbutton?  Bet it still dips in the middle. Might have to glue a couple of thin strips edgeways to make it a bit more rigid.

Thanks Bee. It's about 5mm thick and bowed away from the existing turnbuttons / turnbuckles (I've got all the lingo now!). I think it's going to be more of a problem flattening it again rather than it bowing in the middle, but we'll see. Thanks for suggestion about the strips - it may come to that

[Old Son]

Not sure why you need it this time of year? I have a timber frame with some acrylic glazing which I push up into the timber surround holding the hatch but Only need it when its really cold out. Are you sure you don't have a water leak somewhere?

[RickS]

Thanks Old Son. To be honest, I'm not 100% sure, but I thought considering the amount of rain that came down last week the damage to the mattress wasn't that bad so assumed it was condensation related. I thought if I solve that I can at least eliminate it as a cause, probably.

There is some slight evidence of old damage to the ply ceiling around the hatch, but again, its not wet and isn't that bad. it only consists of the outer laminate of the play being a but tatty and slightly shredded (not sure how to describe it properly).

I have looked outside and there is no obvious point of entry, but I know that water can, and does travel a long way sometimes, but no real evidence of a trail inside.

My plan is to get the acrylic sheet seated better, then tip a bucket of water over the hatch and look for drips!

[blackrose]

I imagine that single glazed houdini hatches could create a surprising amount of condensation in winter, but not this time of year. 

 

But whether it's water ingress or condensation, you're doing the right thing because now is the time to sort it out, not in a few months time when it's sopping wet.

[Stilllearning]

The condensation which is always present in a boat will tend to congregate at the highest cold point overnight. This is always the Houdini hatch, we had one on our last boat and the drops of water had to be mopped up every morning. Our previous boat had pigeon boxes which were far better, as they allowed the water vapour to escape through the tiny gaps between the openings and the sides.

I suspect you will have to live with the drips, or get a pigeon box fitted and remove the hatch.

[Mad Harold]

2 hours ago, Rick Savery said:

 

I have looked outside and there is no obvious point of entry, but I know that water can, and does travel a long way sometimes, but no real evidence of a trail inside.

My plan is to get the acrylic sheet seated better, then tip a bucket of water over the hatch and look for drips!

Water is very cunning stuff!

When trying to trace leaks on my boat,I poured buckets of canal water on areas that I had re-sealed and found no drips inside.Felt quite smug until it rained again,and found it dripping from the same places!

Just pouring water on didn't find the leaks but continuous rain did.

Some careful detective work eventually found the source of the leaks.

[Drayke]

I had a problem with my houdini hatch, landed up taking all the screws out that held it in place, then squirted some mastic into the holes, replaced the screws, no more problem with leaks.

[RickS]

On 22/06/2021 at 12:56, blackrose said:

I imagine that single glazed houdini hatches could create a surprising amount of condensation in winter, but not this time of year. 

 

But whether it's water ingress or condensation, you're doing the right thing because now is the time to sort it out, not in a few months time when it's sopping wet.

Thanks for confidence boost blackrose. Hopefully it won't be a leak!

On 22/06/2021 at 13:58, Stilllearning said:

The condensation which is always present in a boat will tend to congregate at the highest cold point overnight. This is always the Houdini hatch, we had one on our last boat and the drops of water had to be mopped up every morning. Our previous boat had pigeon boxes which were far better, as they allowed the water vapour to escape through the tiny gaps between the openings and the sides.

I suspect you will have to live with the drips, or get a pigeon box fitted and remove the hatch.

Thanks Stilllearning, hopefully it won't come to that and I can solve it ?

On 22/06/2021 at 15:36, Mad Harold said:

Water is very cunning stuff!

When trying to trace leaks on my boat,I poured buckets of canal water on areas that I had re-sealed and found no drips inside.Felt quite smug until it rained again,and found it dripping from the same places!

Just pouring water on didn't find the leaks but continuous rain did.

Some careful detective work eventually found the source of the leaks.

I agree, water can come in considerable distances from where it makes its presence felt. I might have to get a helper (daughter) to emulate continuous rain with a bucket!

Thanks Mad Harold

On 22/06/2021 at 22:45, F DRAYKE said:

I had a problem with my houdini hatch, landed up taking all the screws out that held it in place, then squirted some mastic into the holes, replaced the screws, no more problem with leaks.

Thanks for that piece of advice. If it is a leak, that's good to know

[Tracy D'arth]

The main problem is condensation on the aluminium frames and surround. The glass is the least problem.

I made tight fitting "plugs" of clear 6mm polycarbonate sheet with a rubber edge seal that fit in the lining around my Houdinis which makes the problem bearable.

You have to get an airtight seal else you just get condensation inside again.

[RickS]

34 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

The main problem is condensation on the aluminium frames and surround. The glass is the least problem.

I made tight fitting "plugs" of clear 6mm polycarbonate sheet with a rubber edge seal that fit in the lining around my Houdinis which makes the problem bearable.

You have to get an airtight seal else you just get condensation inside again.

Thanks Tracy. I saw a photo of something similar in another thread that i now can't find (it might have been your post, I'm not sure). Sounds like a good idea and much neater than an acrylic sheet. If it turns out to just be condensation then I think I will try and make something like that.

[Tracy D'arth]

You can buy the rubber seal fitted around the opening casement but the seal on the glass is injected during manufacture. 

It is not possible to strip the glass out and redo it because the glass is fitted with spacer blocks on both sides and the aluminium is folded around the glass, sealant injected, in one piece in manufacture.

I have resealed some by cutting off as much old goo as possible and re gunning with a black polyurethane cartridge, messy but it works if it leaks.

[GUMPY]

If you have it "double glazed" and water is collecting on the hatch side of the glazing then its leaking. Dont ask me how I know but I am having to replace the trim round the hatch as I thought it was condensation

 

[RickS]

3 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

You can buy the rubber seal fitted around the opening casement but the seal on the glass is injected during manufacture. 

It is not possible to strip the glass out and redo it because the glass is fitted with spacer blocks on both sides and the aluminium is folded around the glass, sealant injected, in one piece in manufacture.

I have resealed some by cutting off as much old goo as possible and re gunning with a black polyurethane cartridge, messy but it works if it leaks.

Thanks again Tracy. I will try and dig out that old post I saw and see if it's what you are describing.

[RickS]

28 minutes ago, Loddon said:

If you have it "double glazed" and water is collecting on the hatch side of the glazing then its leaking. Dont ask me how I know but I am having to replace the trim round the hatch as I thought it was condensation

 

Thanks Loddon. As far as I can see (and this is only from earlier in the year, I didn't see the latest event) the water collects in large droplets on the underside of the slightly curved glass of the hatch before dropping. It's not a huge amount, but it was clearly enough recently to do some damage to the mattress. Where it gathers is slightly higher than the rest of the glass, and the drops get fatter until they fall. I am assuming condensation as I would have thought a leak would be more at the sides of the hatch.

I am going to have to keep a close eye on it during rain i think.

[GUMPY]

21 minutes ago, Rick Savery said:

Thanks Loddon. As far as I can see (and this is only from earlier in the year, I didn't see the latest event) the water collects in large droplets on the underside of the slightly curved glass of the hatch before dropping. It's not a huge amount, but it was clearly enough recently to do some damage to the mattress. Where it gathers is slightly higher than the rest of the glass, and the drops get fatter until they fall. I am assuming condensation as I would have thought a leak would be more at the sides of the hatch.;

I am going to have to keep a close eye on it during rain i think.

I used to get condensation like that but the amount of water on the double glazing below went down 80% when I resealed the hatch to the roof, its only a few screws and some butyl tape, easily done.

Edited June 24, 2021 by Loddon