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Which navigation authority are these rivers?


jetzi

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2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

River Idle

 

7 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

How do you get onto it?

Through the flood gate and than as far as the weir and power station (300yards) upstream  after which portage only. You used to be able to get as far a Haxey Gate Pub with a narrowboat where there is a slipway just before the bridge. Not possable now since the hydro station was built some years ago.

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15 minutes ago, nbfiresprite said:

 

Through the flood gate and than as far as the weir and power station (300yards) upstream  after which portage only. You used to be able to get as far a Haxey Gate Pub with a narrowboat where there is a slipway just before the bridge. Not possable now since the hydro station was built some years ago.

That's interesting, all the websites I have searched still say that the river is navigable as far as Bawtry. It certainly looked passable in 2015.

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17 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

That's interesting, all the websites I have searched still say that the river is navigable as far as Bawtry. It certainly looked passable in 2015.

 

As you can see the river is now blocked by the new Hydro power station.  There is no lock here. There were a number of liveaboards moored at Haxey Quay campsite who had to leave or be trapped when the Hydro station was built. Including one 70ft narrowboat called the 'Old Tramps Retreat' the owner of which told me what happened. Upstream of Haxey Bridge were a number of shallow spots. Nowadays you only see small trailer boats on the river.  

 

 

hydro station.jpg

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2 minutes ago, Wittenham said:

if I can access the collective knowledge of this group.... not a narrowboat route, but who oversees the Cherwell River [the bit between Kingsground Marina and Oxford, if that is relevant]. 

 

It's not navigable between Shipton Weir Lock and Oxford. EA have their usual responsibilities.

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Just now, Scholar Gypsy said:

It's not navigable between Shipton Weir Lock and Oxford. EA have their usual responsibilities.

thanks and by 'not navigable' do you mean it is not possible to get a boat down it or that it is not permitted to take a boat down it?

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4 minutes ago, Wittenham said:

thanks and by 'not navigable' do you mean it is not possible to get a boat down it or that it is not permitted to take a boat down it?

 

21 minutes ago, nbfiresprite said:

 

As you can see the river is now blocked by the new Hydro power station.  There is no lock here. There were a number of liveaboards moored at Haxey Quay campsite who had to leave or be trapped when the Hydro station was built. Including one 70ft narrowboat called the 'Old Tramps Retreat' the owner of which told me what happened. Upstream of Haxey Bridge were a number of shallow spots. Nowadays you only see small trailer boats on the river.  

 

 

hydro station.jpg

 

There surely never was a lock there - the "lock" comprised the section between the sluice gate here and the one connecting the Idle and the Trent. 

Here's a 2004 photo which looks identical. I think those pipes belong to the pumps, but maybe now converted to hydro.

I wonder if EA have adjusted the levels so that the water either side of this point never reaches a level?

 

 

stockwith.jpg

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20 minutes ago, Wittenham said:

thanks and by 'not navigable' do you mean it is not possible to get a boat down it or that it is not permitted to take a boat down it?


Punts can certainly get as far upstream as Islip.  I suspect you can get from there to Hampton Gay - under three railway bridges, a main road, over a couple of weirs etc etc. I don't know what the landowners would say, or whether it is doable on a canoe.

Ah: here you go, from a group of enthusiasts/nutters:  https://thames.me.uk/s02430.htm

Edited by Scholar Gypsy
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3 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:


Punts can certainly get as far upstream as Islip.  I suspect you can get from there to Hampton Gay - under three railway bridges, a main road, over a couple of weirs etc etc. I don't know what the landowners would say, or whether it is doable on a canoe.

Ah: here you go:  https://thames.me.uk/s02430.htm

Great pictures, thanks.  I solo canoed down it yesterday [plus labrador] from a put in near Hampton Poyle to Oxford  There was a fair few trees and branches across it and a couple times, I climbed onto a branch to haul the canoe over.  I also saw branches cut by a saw in the middle of the river, which means someone else had been there.

 

I asked because a series of fishermen, of varying levels of grumpiness, told me 'this is an unnavigable river', which confused me at first, until their meaning was clarified. This was news to me, so I had a bit of a google today and it seems the question of 'public right to navigation' is unclear with both sides arguing their position is definitive.

 

I did think going on to the bank to get around a weir might be a trespass, but even that is [depending on one's PoV] acceptable.  As it was, i lined the canoe down the only weir i met, so did not ever get out of the water. 

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42 minutes ago, nbfiresprite said:

 

As you can see the river is now blocked by the new Hydro power station.  There is no lock here. There were a number of liveaboards moored at Haxey Quay campsite who had to leave or be trapped when the Hydro station was built. Including one 70ft narrowboat called the 'Old Tramps Retreat' the owner of which told me what happened. Upstream of Haxey Bridge were a number of shallow spots. Nowadays you only see small trailer boats on the river.  

 

 

hydro station.jpg

 

It seems the cost of entering the R. Idle off the R.Trent  is prohibitive.

 

image.png.b7975455b5368c4d7cb46e2f444fd6e2.png

 

https://waterways.org.uk/waterways/discover-the-waterways/river-idle

.

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10 minutes ago, Wittenham said:

Great pictures, thanks.  I solo canoed down it yesterday [plus labrador] from a put in near Hampton Poyle to Oxford  There was a fair few trees and branches across it and a couple times, I climbed onto a branch to haul the canoe over.  I also saw branches cut by a saw in the middle of the river, which means someone else had been there.

 

I asked because a series of fishermen, of varying levels of grumpiness, told me 'this is an unnavigable river', which confused me at first, until their meaning was clarified. This was news to me, so I had a bit of a google today and it seems the question of 'public right to navigation' is unclear with both sides arguing their position is definitive.

 

I did think going on to the bank to get around a weir might be a trespass, but even that is [depending on one's PoV] acceptable.  As it was, i lined the canoe down the only weir i met, so did not ever get out of the water. 

Yes, indeed. IWA and others have spent a lot of money on (eg) the Yorkshire Derwent - this is an extract from Wikipedia.  "By the beginning of the 20th century the river was being used for pleasure craft and by 1920 there were craft based regularly at Stamford Bridge and Kirkham Abbey. After floods in 1930 damaged the lock gates at Kirkham several vessels were stranded upstream. In 1935 statutory Right of Navigation was revoked above Sutton Lock.[7] There followed a long series of fights for public access against riparian interests which continue to the present day." 

 

Given the Cherwell has never been the subject of an Act of Parliament to create a navigation (apart from the two stretches at Aynho and Shipton) it's hard to see how there would be a PRN there. Not sure whether you got out of the water has anything to do with it.  Ditto if you started fishing from the boat....   

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15 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

 

[snip]

 

Given the Cherwell has never been the subject of an Act of Parliament to create a navigation (apart from the two stretches at Aynho and Shipton) it's hard to see how there would be a PRN there. Not sure whether you got out of the water has anything to do with it.  Ditto if you started fishing from the boat....   

 

firstly, I am no expert, never having heard of this issue until yesterday.  To summarise the google on the side of the open access supporters 'the PRN has always been there, it can only be removed by statutory action'.  In other words, the other way around from the way you wrote it.  What seems clear is that there is not an agreed answer and neither side has dragged this through the courts to get an interpretation.  

 

for clarity, my point on getting out of the water on to the land is I would then be trespassing, whether i was simply portaging my canoe, or having lunch.  The pro-access side claim such a move is actually legal.

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10 hours ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

 

 

There surely never was a lock there - the "lock" comprised the section between the sluice gate here and the one connecting the Idle and the Trent. 

Here's a 2004 photo which looks identical. I think those pipes belong to the pumps, but maybe now converted to hydro.

I wonder if EA have adjusted the levels so that the water either side of this point never reaches a level?

 

 

stockwith.jpg

 

 

I did not say there was a lock here, just pointed out that there was no lock.  The  owner of the 'Old Tramps Retreat' who was one of these forced to leave or be stuck. They left the Idle through the flood gate when the tide was level. The ones who left had to pay £120 each to go through the flood gate. Over a £1000 for a hours work

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1 hour ago, nbfiresprite said:

 

 

I did not say there was a lock here, just pointed out that there was no lock.  The  owner of the 'Old Tramps Retreat' who was one of these forced to leave or be stuck. They left the Idle through the flood gate when the tide was level. The ones who left had to pay £120 each to go through the flood gate. Over a £1000 for a hours work

My understanding (talking to a local who is active with a local boat club) is that transit is still possible - just expensive - and it has been a while since an organised convoy did the trip.  Anyway, it's not at the top of my to-do list! 

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On 21/06/2021 at 20:01, nbfiresprite said:

 

As you can see the river is now blocked by the new Hydro power station.  There is no lock here. There were a number of liveaboards moored at Haxey Quay campsite who had to leave or be trapped when the Hydro station was built. Including one 70ft narrowboat called the 'Old Tramps Retreat' the owner of which told me what happened. Upstream of Haxey Bridge were a number of shallow spots. Nowadays you only see small trailer boats on the river.  

 

 

hydro station.jpg

That's been there as long as I can remember (40 years?) and boats certainly have gone past it, albeit not very often and doubtless on payment of a fat fee

I think one has to wait a significant length of time between the station and the sluice at the confluence with the Trent

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10 hours ago, magpie patrick said:

That's been there as long as I can remember (40 years?) and boats certainly have gone past it, albeit not very often and doubtless on payment of a fat fee

I think one has to wait a significant length of time between the station and the sluice at the confluence with the Trent

It is still possible to get on and off the Idle, just very few boats do it due to the cost.

 

Friends of ours moored at Haxey for a while a couple of years back and had to pay to get in and out again. In the end they found it too prohibitive and got a mooring at West Stockwith instead.

On 20/06/2021 at 17:20, jetzi said:

I was planning out some potential travels and I was dismayed to discover that the Warwickshire Avon has its own navigation authority (ANT) and so I assume a Gold license won't cover it. They charge 50 GBP for a 7 day through pass and a whopping 1238 for a year!

 

I'm trying to find out who the navigation authorities for all the connected network that I can reach with my 65' boat. Can anyone help me or provide a source for these?

 

  1. River Witham below Boston. The CaRT map stops at Boston, and it seems logical that the W4IDB would take over. I think that CaRT covers Sleaford and Black Sluice though so maybe it does?
  2. Apart from the bit of the Cam above (south of) Bottisham Lock, the Anglian waterways (Nene, Ouses, Wissey, Lark, New Bedford, Burwell/Reach/Swaffham Lodes) are all EA, correct?
  3. The Thames between Teddington and Brentford is apparently covered by the Port of London Authority - would an EA/Gold license cover this bit?
  4. The Wey = River Wey and Godalming Navigations - correct?
  5. Basingstoke Canal = Hampshire County Council - correct?
  6. Trent below (north of) Gainsborough - the CaRT map stops here but I'm pretty sure CaRT governs the Trent all the way to Trent Falls, doesn't it?

 

Everything else I think is covered by CaRT... I hope...

The tidal Witham is ABP Boston.

 

The Black Sluice is EA.

 

The Trent below Gainsborough is ABP Humber.

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