Should I get a pre purchase survey?

[O-F1]

I am completely new to boating. I would really appreciate some/ any advise.

 

I have found a 50 ft Traditional style narrow boat by Evans and Son (2001) where the owner has provided a survey done a week ago. The surveyor has a Mar. Dip. Sur. The boat was taken out of the water for the survey and blacking.

 

According to the survey, the hull is in good condition with no overplating and.. on the hull diagram the sides range from 4.8 - 5.9 mm (the majority of readings are 5.3-5.9 mm) while the bottom reading ranges from 9.2-10 (only one reading of 9.2, otherwise 9.6-9.8). With regards to the weed hatch- the freeboard height of the tunnel is 150 mm. The only thing that needs consideration is putting in additional anodes and getting a galvanic isolator. With regards to the sacrificial anodes, the current ones of the boat is apparently still functional and shows only minimal wear - the surveryor is suggesting reviewing that in the next 2 years. They are selling for the high 30,000s.

 

The engine is Beta Marine 37.5 horse power - was not included in the survey.

 

We have not seen the boat yet, but we can't figure out what to do. We want to look at all aspects and have all the right questions lined up before viewing because we don't want to waste time for both parties! Should we get another complete survey or a engineer to come and look at the engine? The interior looks nice enough but what really keeps me up is the hull and the engine - Are these good numbers for a hull?

 

Thank you so much for your time, its very much appreciated.

Edited June 17, 2021 by O-F1

[Alan de Enfield]

The thig to remeber is that unless you commisioned and paid for the survey, the survey is of no value to you.

 

If you buy the boat and find a substantial fault that is going to cost £20,000 to rectify you have ansolutely no come-back on the surveyor (its hard enough to sue your own surveyor)

 

If you have seen, or can view the existing survey there will be some small print either in the introduction or in the conclusions that will say (words to the effect)

 

"This survey is valid at the time of issue only, and can only be used by the person who commisioned the survey, no one else has any legal recourse to anything stated in the survey"

 

Quite rightly, the surveyor does not know if the moment he walked off site, someone didn't cut a hole in the gas pipes, short circuit all the electrics and drill holes thru the bottom of the boat. 

 

The survey should only be used as an indication that the boat SEEMS to be worthwhile having your own survey done.

 

There are three key (expensive) componets to a boat :

Hull

Engine 

Gear Box

 

Pretty much everything else is DIY 'fixable'.

 

Why would the engine not be included in the survey ?

If you have a survey done, ensure that the engine is checked for condition and that it is running (same with the gearbox) A new (or major work to the) engine could easily amount to £5k - £10k you don't want to be paying that the day after you have bought the boat.

Edited June 17, 2021 by Alan de Enfield

[matty40s]

It seems to be that certain brokers are now recommending sellers have a hull survey and blacking prior to sale...commendable if it was just to quicken the process.

However, it is YOU who is buying the boats and the surveyor was paid by the person selling the boat...wouldnt peace of mind be better served if  YOU had commissioned the survey, so the surveyor was acting on your instruction.

[Skeg]

37 minutes ago, matty40s said:

It seems to be that certain brokers are now recommending sellers have a hull survey and blacking prior to sale...commendable if it was just to quicken the process.

However, it is YOU who is buying the boats and the surveyor was paid by the person selling the boat...wouldnt peace of mind be better served if  YOU had commissioned the survey, so the surveyor was acting on your instruction.

 

1 hour ago, O-F1 said:

I am completely new to boating. I would really appreciate some/ any advise.

 

I have found a 50 ft Traditional style narrow boat by Evans and Son (2001) where the owner has provided a survey done a week ago. The surveyor has a Mar. Dip. Sur. The boat was taken out of the water for the survey and blacking.

 

According to the survey, the hull is in good condition with no overplating and.. on the hull diagram the sides range from 4.8 - 5.9 mm (the majority of readings are 5.3-5.9 mm) while the bottom reading ranges from 9.2-10 (only one reading of 9.2, otherwise 9.6-9.8). With regards to the weed hatch- the freeboard height of the tunnel is 150 mm. The only thing that needs consideration is putting in additional anodes and getting a galvanic isolator. With regards to the sacrificial anodes, the current ones of the boat is apparently still functional and shows only minimal wear - the surveryor is suggesting reviewing that in the next 2 years. They are selling for the high 30,000s.

 

The engine is Beta Marine 37.5 horse power - was not included in the survey.

 

We have not seen the boat yet, but we can't figure out what to do. We want to look at all aspects and have all the right questions lined up before viewing because we don't want to waste time for both parties! Should we get another complete survey or a engineer to come and look at the engine? The interior looks nice enough but what really keeps me up is the hull and the engine - Are these good numbers for a hull?

 

Thank you so much for your time, its very much appreciated.

If it’s the one on Apollo Duck it looks OK but why does it have a survey that is one week old? Did the survey throw up something  To scare  off a potential buyer.

[O-F1]

Thank you everyone for the wise words.

 

Yes it is the one on Apollo Duck - the rationale for the survey was as matty40s suggested - the seller wanted to speed up the process of selling so got a survey done + blacked.

[ditchcrawler]

I read a posting the other week someone was selling a boat and they were going to have it surveyed before putting up for sale.

 

I suppose it protects the seller a bit. Say you are buying a boat and "your" surveyor writes a report saying it needs all new stern gear that will cost £10,000 so you can negotiate the price down. If the seller has not had a recent survey he has no way of telling if this is correct.

 

[blackrose]

The only value of a seller's survey for someone new to boats, is using as a basis for deciding whether it's worth commissioning their own survey.

 

I know this story is probably quite rare, but about 15 years ago I met a guy on a Dutch barge at Penton Hook marina on the Thames, who'd bought his boat on the strength of a copy of the vendor's survey. He later found that a lot of the hull thickness measurements had been doctored and it cost him over £10K to do the repairs. The vendor had long gone by then of course and he had no comeback.

[Bee]

If you are new to boating you should get a hull survey done if at all possible. We met a lady a few years ago with a boat she had just bought and it was in a bad state needing much welding. It had a 'recent' survey when she bought it that was just plain wrong - I sometimes wonder if it was for another boat with bits cut and pasted from her boat. 

[Tacet]

If the survey can be assigned to you i.e. it puts you in the same position as though you had commissioned the survey, then it is a much better start.  If vendors are going to commission surveys pre-marketing, it would be sensible to make a prior arrangement with said surveyor.

 

But it still leaves you with a few concerns such as

 

*  Just what was the surveyor instructed to do? (check the report - it should be reasonably clear), 

*  Was the surveyor seller-inclined?

*  What has changed since the report?

 

These points, perhaps to a lesser extent, also relate to a buyer survey.

 

 

[Momac]

Contact the surveyor and see if he will assign the survey to you - possibly for a small fee .

But if you are uncertain do also get the engine checked out  by a suitably experienced engineer and take  test drive. 

[O-F1]

Thank you all.
 

A quick update: 

I spoke to the surveyor first thing - in the survey documentation he does note it is for the owner and the interested buyer (me). 
Anyways he was happy to speak through the hull survey with me and gave me advise re what he himself would be looking for when purchasing a narrow boat and suggested what I could negotiate on. He did say he wouldn’t have done anything differently for a pre purchase survey. 
 

I just have to say the boating world has been exceedingly lovely so far and I have sought advise from more than one surveyor and they have happily advised me (for free) intermixed with a lot of effective personal anecdotes. 

[LEO]

The idea of a vendor survey is a good one, at least you know what you are selling, the purchaser should also have a survey prior to purchase, keeps every one happy. The requirements for a hull survey are increasing with insurance companies attitudes to older boats. I recently had a hull survey on my boat, combining it with a blacking, £400, not bad when one considers the cost of a BSC inspection, really you have to weigh up peace of mind and how deep are your pockets if problems crop up. Experience sometimes helps, when you make make an informal judgement taking into account the age of the boat, builder. useage and maintenance, but for most people, caution should be your watchword. Hope this helps.

[O-F1]

Thank you everyone I think for the moment we are going forward with a pre purchase survey. 

[enigmatic]

The survey figures are pretty good and the price of the boat sounds competitive.

 

Very good of the surveyor to chat with you too, and sounds like it will be valid as a hull survey for your insurance in the (unlikely) event your insurer needs it for a 20 year old boat.

 

But it also sounds like a hull only survey. You could, if you were minded to buy the boat, get a surveyor to look at other bits (electrics, engine, kitchen fittings, BSS compliance) with the boat in the water which could be done quicker and cheaper and may encounter things which need fixing which the previous surveyor wasn't asked to look at.