Boat electrics/battery/solar

[Alan de Enfield]

2 hours ago, Chris Debois said:

Would three of these be ok?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Varta-LFD60-Leisure-Battery-12V-60Ah-Dual-Purpose-for-Caravan-Boat-Motorhome-/254811399919?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286

 

Ideally get 2 (or more) of these :

 

Titanium 12V 110Ah Leisure Battery for Boat, Caravan, Motorhome, Camper Van | eBay

[Chris Debois]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Ideally get 2 (or more) of these :

 

Titanium 12V 110Ah Leisure Battery for Boat, Caravan, Motorhome, Camper Van | eBay

Thank you. I ordered three of these earlier today. 

[Chris Debois]

I've fitted the new batteries and everything is working fine at the moment. (Splitter has also arrived and ready to fit) Thank you for all the help.

 

New question. This water pump is noisy and seems to be switching on and off. Does this indicate faulty pump, poor water flow into pump, or would an accumulater solve the problem?

 

 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, Chris Debois said:

I've fitted the new batteries and everything is working fine at the moment. (Splitter has also arrived and ready to fit) Thank you for all the help.

 

Batteries will NOT be supplied fully charged, so you do need to run the engine for a few hours (3 or 4 ?) to get them topped up.

 

Can you :

 

1) Before you run the engine test the voltage at the battery teminals.

2) Start engine and test voltage INPUT to the splitter

3) With engine running test splitter OUTPUT voltage

4) With engine running test voltage at battery terminals.

 

Do you have an ammeter ?

 

 

 

Edited June 23, 2021 by Alan de Enfield

[Tony Brooks]

7 minutes ago, Chris Debois said:

I've fitted the new batteries and everything is working fine at the moment. (Splitter has also arrived and ready to fit) Thank you for all the help.

 

New question. This water pump is noisy and seems to be switching on and off. Does this indicate faulty pump, poor water flow into pump, or would an accumulator solve the problem?

 

 

 

It's not as easy as that. When is it turning on and off? Only with a tap open or all the time the pump circuit is turned on. If the latter, at what sort of frequency.

 

If it's with a tap open then it just means the pump output is greater than the flow from the tap. An accumulator will not stop this happening but the on and off period will be longer, so when just filling a kettle it may not happen.

 

If it is doing it with the pump energised but all taps turned off then if its every few hours, especially in the night,  AND you have a calorifier an accumulator should solve it.

 

If it does it during the day, especially at periods of two hours or less than it is likely to be  a leak. Calorifier PRV. Plumbing leak, internal valve leaks inside the pump and as you do not show an inlet strainer I suspect the latter might be the cause.

 

Pumps screwed hard down onto board will usually be noisy. Try it loosely screwed down onto some rubber/neoprene sheet about 6mm thick.

 

 

[Chris Debois]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Batteries will NOT be supplied fully charged, so you do need to run the engine for a few hours (3 or 4 ?) to get them topped up.

 

Can you :

 

1) Before you run the engine test the voltage at the battery teminals.

2) Start engine and test voltage INPUT to the splitter

3) With engine running test splitter OUTPUT voltage

4) With engine running test voltage at battery terminals.

 

Do you have an ammeter ?

 

 

 

I did a trip today with the engine running for 3 or 4 hours so when I go back to the boat in a couple of days time I will take some readings with my multi meter. 

[Chris Debois]

I guess this is 'supposed' to read at least 12v after running the engine for 3 or 4 hours yesterday, 2 today, not using the invertor and with minimal 12v appliances?

 

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, Chris Debois said:

I guess this is 'supposed' to read at least 12v after running the engine for 3 or 4 hours yesterday, 2 today, not using the invertor and with minimal 12v appliances?

 

If the meter is reading correctly that battery(s) is way past dead.

6 hours engine running and little or no draw then its defunct, kaput, curling up its toes, it is no-more, it has passed thru the Pearly gates, it is extinct.

 

What does you multimeter show when testing directly onto the battery terminals ?

 

You now need to find out why it is only at 9 volts.

 

Is this after fitting your new batteries and replacement charge 'splitter' ?

 

 

[Chris Debois]

Just took battery readings, 10v,  so still not charging. Will look at fitting new splitter now.

They're the new batteries by the way.

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, Chris Debois said:

Just took battery readings, 10v,  so still not charging. Will look at fitting new splitter now.

 

 

If that is taken from your new batteries you may have done irrepairable damage. At 9v it is debatable if you'll get them back.

 

What voltage are you now getting going INTO your splitter (ie the alternator output) with the engine running.

Edited June 27, 2021 by Alan de Enfield

[Chris Debois]

When taking the reading from the splitter output to the leisures I get a reading of 10.16v. (Assuming I am correct in putting the ammeter negative on the leisure battery?)

[Chris Debois]

So yes, the splitter is outputting 14v+ to the starter and about 10.11v to the leisures. I have the new splitter here which I could change now but because a new one was installed previously I'm beginning to think cabling? 

On second thoughts there is no cabling involved? 

Or on second look I should say.

14v + into the splitter.

[Chris Debois]

The presently installed splitter has three connections. 

 

Alternator in

Starter out

Leisures out.

 

This new one doesn't appear to have a alternator in?

[Chris Debois]

Sorry, it's about 13.4 from the alternator into the splitter.

[GUMPY]

To get you out of trouble put the alternator and the leisures on the red terminal and the starter on the other large terminal and connect the thin wire to the -ve of the leisure and then run your engine for 12hrs?

[Chris Debois]

I have been an idiot. When I installed the new batteries I failed to connect the negative cable between the starter battery and the leisures. I took a photo, laid everything out carefully and took my time to reinstall. Everything now appears to be charging up normally again. I will still fit the new splitter very soon.

 

Thank you again for all the advice. Despite being the idiot, it was good to get stuck in and learn about things about my boat for the future.

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, Chris Debois said:

When taking the reading from the splitter output to the leisures I get a reading of 10.16v. (Assuming I am correct in putting the ammeter negative on the leisure battery?)

 I hope you don't mean AMMETER - if you did that is also now kaput.

Edited June 27, 2021 by Tony Brooks

[Chris Debois]

Voltmeter. Not much left for me to get wrong today. If only you knew the half of it. ?‍♂️

[Tony Brooks]

25 minutes ago, Chris Debois said:

Voltmeter. Not much left for me to get wrong today. If only you knew the half of it. ?‍♂️

Good. It's very hard to damage a voltmeter whatever you do with it electricity wise, but its dead easy to burn an ammeter out if you don't follow the rules.

[David Mack]

6 hours ago, Chris Debois said:

The presently installed splitter has three connections. 

 

Alternator in

Starter out

Leisures out.

 

This new one doesn't appear to have a alternator in?

That's not a splitter, ( as in a diode splitter) that's a Voltage Sensitive Relay (VSR). Wire the alternator output and the domestic  battery positive to the red terminal, and the engine battery positive to the silver terminal, then connect the thin wire to either of the battery negatives (which are connected to each other). If it's like my VSR there will be a small red indicator light on the front which is illuminated when the battery voltage is high enough to link the two batteries. 

[Tony Brooks]

10 hours ago, David Mack said:

That's not a splitter, ( as in a diode splitter) that's a Voltage Sensitive Relay (VSR). Wire the alternator output and the domestic  battery positive to the red terminal, and the engine battery positive to the silver terminal, then connect the thin wire to either of the battery negatives (which are connected to each other). If it's like my VSR there will be a small red indicator light on the front which is illuminated when the battery voltage is high enough to link the two batteries. 

 

Edited for clarity to add:

The splitter the OP was using is a diode splitter. The image in his photo is a VSR as far as I can see.

 

I disagree. It's a passive diode splitter.

 

A VSR will have two large terminals and one small one. The small one is the negative for the electronics and relay coil. It is true the two large ones run to the banks but they should be in most cases (Alan and some others have other ideas) in from domestic bank and out to engine bank. The alternator is connected to the domestic bank.

 

Note:- the instructions may say differently, especially if the sellers main market is vehicles, but following them and connecting the alternator to the engine battery increases the chances of relay contact failure by overload. Also, traditionally single alternator boats had the alternator output connected to the big starter terminal, so to the engine battery. It's less work then to connect a VSR or ordinary split charge relay the other way round.

Edited June 28, 2021 by Tony Brooks

[Tony Brooks]

16 hours ago, Chris Debois said:

The presently installed splitter has three connections. 

 

Alternator in, Starter out. Leisures out.

 

This new one doesn't appear to have a alternator in?

 

 

It won't. The alternator is wired by suitably heavy cable to the domestic bank. Make sure whichever of the larger terminal is doing the sensing is connected goes to the same bank. The instructions might say different and other here also differ. The relay may be bi-directional and if so both large terminals are sensing so it won't matter  which goes to which bank.

 

A VSR itself does not split the charge. It simply connects both banks to form one large bank whenever the voltage is above about 13.6 volts. Then the  charge is apportioned between the two banks, automatically by the batteries themselves, so the flatter bank gets a greater proportion of the charge.

Edited June 28, 2021 by Tony Brooks

[Chris Debois]

Morning all. I'm going back to the boat probably today with a clearer mind, I hope.

 

So, if the starter motor is faulty and not charging to the correct voltage, the splitter/VSR will not then be able to switch the charging to the leisures?

[Alan de Enfield]

9 minutes ago, Chris Debois said:

So, if the starter motor is faulty and not charging to the correct voltage, the splitter/VSR will not then be able to switch the charging to the leisures?

 

Please try and pay attention to terminology, it will make it easier - diagnosis by internet is not the easiest at the best of times, but saying Ammeter when you mean Voltmeter, and 'starter motor' when (presumably) you mean alternator does not help, and leads to the thoughts that other statements may not be correct.

Edited June 28, 2021 by Alan de Enfield

[Chris Debois]

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Please try and pay attention to terminology, it will make it easier - diagnosis by internet is not the easiest at the best of times, but saying Ammeter when you mean Voltmeter, and 'starter motor' when (presumably) you mean alternator does not help, and leads to the thoughts that other statements may not be correct.

Yes, you are correct. It's very difficult for a novice to understand over the internet, too.