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Are you a " Traveller" ?


Are you a " traveller" ?  

30 members have voted

  1. 1. As a boater do you have a problem with being grouped with the name " Travellers" as in the National Bargee Travellers Association ?

    • I have no problem with this.
      8
    • I do not wish to be associated with the term "Travellers ".
      22


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A "traveller" on a continuous cruising boat is something I decided to be because I thought boating around would be a fun thing to do at this point in life, not my ethnicity as NBTA suggest it might be.

 

I'm not remotely worried that people are going to accuse me of negative things they accuse gypsies of because I live on a boat, but I'm not remotely interested in using ethnic minority rights arguments to argue the toss with the CRT or Environment Agency either.

Edited by enigmatic
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The Government 'lump' boat travellers with Gypsies and Romas as far as the requirements for Childrens education.

 

 

 

Screenshot (379).png

 

 

Introduction This advice gives information for parents and carers of Gypsy, Roma and Traveller children and those who work with them in schools and local authorities. It is important for schools and local authorities to understand the culture of children and young people from Gypsy, Roma and Traveller communities as this reduces the risk of underachievement or exclusion of the pupil. The best opportunities are found when parents/carers, schools and local authorities understand each other and plan and work together in the interest of the child.

 

The advice explains what the law says and describes some good ideas about school attendance for Gypsy, Roma and Traveller pupils. For the purposes of this advice only, the term ‘Gypsy, Roma and Traveller families’ means:

• a)

i. Gypsies inc. Romanies, Romanichals, Welsh Gypsies/Kaale, Scottish Gypsies/Travellers;

ii. Irish Travellers, Minceir;

iii. Roma from Eastern and Central Europe;

iv. Showmen (Fairground people);

v. Circus people;

vi. Boat Travellers/Bargees;

vii. New Travellers or New Age Travellers; and

 

• b)

the parent/carer is engaged in a trade or business of such a nature that requires them to travel from place to place. This advice on school attendance only applies to families who meet the criteria at both a) and b) above. In this advice the term ‘travelling’ means travelling as part of the parents’/carers’ trade or business. It does not mean travelling as part of a holiday or extended holiday

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The Government 'lump' boat travellers with Gypsies and Romas as far as the requirements for Childrens education.

From an education point of view all itinerant children need treated the same so it is logical to put them all in a single group.

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40 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The Government 'lump' boat travellers with Gypsies and Romas as far as the requirements for Childrens education.

 

 

 

Screenshot (379).png

 

 

Introduction This advice gives information for parents and carers of Gypsy, Roma and Traveller children and those who work with them in schools and local authorities. It is important for schools and local authorities to understand the culture of children and young people from Gypsy, Roma and Traveller communities as this reduces the risk of underachievement or exclusion of the pupil. The best opportunities are found when parents/carers, schools and local authorities understand each other and plan and work together in the interest of the child.

 

The advice explains what the law says and describes some good ideas about school attendance for Gypsy, Roma and Traveller pupils. For the purposes of this advice only, the term ‘Gypsy, Roma and Traveller families’ means:

• a)

i. Gypsies inc. Romanies, Romanichals, Welsh Gypsies/Kaale, Scottish Gypsies/Travellers;

ii. Irish Travellers, Minceir;

iii. Roma from Eastern and Central Europe;

iv. Showmen (Fairground people);

v. Circus people;

vi. Boat Travellers/Bargees;

vii. New Travellers or New Age Travellers; and

 

• b)

the parent/carer is engaged in a trade or business of such a nature that requires them to travel from place to place. This advice on school attendance only applies to families who meet the criteria at both a) and b) above. In this advice the term ‘travelling’ means travelling as part of the parents’/carers’ trade or business. It does not mean travelling as part of a holiday or extended holiday

But that guidance makes clear that this definition of 'traveller family' is only for the purpose of the guide (and not for any wider purpose), and secondly only applies where the parents' trade or business requires them to travel from place to place. Back when whole families lived on carrying boats, that definition would have included boat children,but these days I imagine there are very few, if any, boat dwelling children who are required to move as a result of their parents' trade or business (CRT's requirements for CCers to move not being related to the boater's trade or business).

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I suspect most people who own a boat or consider them selves a boater are no more a ''traveller'' than anyone  in or on a car , bus, train , aircraft, van, truck , motorhome  or caravan. However a traveller may use one or more of those things.

 

I suspect the great majority of boaters do not live on their boat.

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2 hours ago, CompairHolman said:

Does the term " Traveller " represent you as a boater or do you feel the term has negative connotations due to the criminal and antisocial behaviour of the group commonly known as " Travellers " ?

 

I think you'd need to conduct another poll first to see if everyone accepts your basic premise that the group known as Travellers are involved in criminal and antisocial behaviour.

 

Some people believe your characterisation of Travellers is prejudiced and bigoted.

Edited by blackrose
  • Greenie 4
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I am a boater, have been for 65years, you are either a boater with a house, a continuous moorer or someone who lives on a boat for whatever reason.

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24 minutes ago, StephenA said:

Would you ask a similar question to those who use their caravans a lot?

 

 

Our "land boat" at Wigrams Marina.

Plus our water boat on the Coventry Canal.

 

We use both of them to "travel" to our chosen destination at the time.

Travel, pick any one to suit from this lot. Verb to travel - English conjugation (theconjugator.com)

 

DSCF2417.JPG

IMGP5293.JPG

Edited by Ray T
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2 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

I think you'd need to conduct another poll first to see if everyone accepts your basic premise that the group known as Travellers are involved in criminal and antisocial behaviour.

 

Some people believe your characterisation of Travellers is prejudiced and bigoted.

Just some people? 

Most criminal behaviour in this country is committed by people who aren't known as Travellers. It is therefore obvious that the entire population should be  considered to be essentially antisocial and criminally inclined, apart from Travellers who are such a small minority of the prison population and who should therefore be treated with the utmost respect and regarded as an example to us all.

Alternatively, learn about Venn diagrams. And grow up (CH, not blackrose  obviously).

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I have idly considered whether, as a continuous cruiser, I might be a traveller for town planning purposes.

 

@magpie patrick will know better than me, but there are frequently specific planning policies for travellers sites.  Just to be clear, I offer no comment on whether the policy distinctions are justified.

 

 

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32 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Most criminal behaviour in this country is committed by people who aren't known as Travellers. It is therefore obvious that the entire population should be  considered to be essentially antisocial and criminally inclined, apart from Travellers who are such a small minority of the prison population and who should therefore be treated with the utmost respect and regarded as an example to us all.

 

Is that because the Police are told to back-off when Gypsies / Travellers are likely to be involved in antisocial or criminal activity ?

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5 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Just some people? 

Most criminal behaviour in this country is committed by people who aren't known as Travellers. It is therefore obvious that the entire population should be  considered to be essentially antisocial and criminally inclined, apart from Travellers who are such a small minority of the prison population and who should therefore be treated with the utmost respect and regarded as an example to us all.

Alternatively, learn about Venn diagrams. And grow up (CH, not blackrose  obviously).

Wrong. Self identified Gypsy and Travellers are 0.1% of the UK population and massively over represented in the prison population at 5 %. Some individual prisons hold 12% . 

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It's strange how the meanings of words change over time. If you said, say 40 years ago, that someone was a traveller, it would generally mean that he was a "commercial traveller", a salesman who went around the country by car showing samples of goods to prospective customers. That meaning seems to be less often used nowadays, and the term is more often applied to people who live in caravans.

   But anyone who is making a journey, be it by road, rail, sea or air, is by definition a traveller, because they're engaged in travelling.

Edited by Athy
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9 hours ago, CompairHolman said:

Wrong. Self identified Gypsy and Travellers are 0.1% of the UK population and massively over represented in the prison population at 5 %. Some individual prisons hold 12% . 

Slippery slope ahoy!

You are of course aware that black, Asian and mixed ethnic people represent 25% of the prison population and 41% in the youth justice system. Yet they comprise merely 14% of the general population. (Figures are from 2017). Criminalising a particular type of behaviour because it doesn't fit in with what Alan Watts described as "lawn order" can't be extrapolated back to suggest that certain types of people are up to no good. Or have bad genes, even.

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At first glance this poll seems to be pointless but I suspect that it is intended purely to stir up sh*t.

Perhaps the OP should ask the NBTA to poll it's members, after all the question only applies to them ( us ).

 

Keith

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42 minutes ago, Steilsteven said:

At first glance this poll seems to be pointless but I suspect that it is intended purely to stir up sh*t.

Perhaps the OP should ask the NBTA to poll it's members, after all the question only applies to them ( us ).

 

Keith

Surely there should be a further option that as a boater I don't want to be associated with the NBTA?

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10 hours ago, Athy said:

It's strange how the meanings of words change over time. If you said, say 40 years ago, that someone was a traveller, it would generally mean that he was a "commercial traveller", a salesman who went around the country by car showing samples of goods to prospective customers. That meaning seems to be less often used nowadays, and the term is more often applied to people who live in caravans.

   But anyone who is making a journey, be it by road, rail, sea or air, is by definition a traveller, because they're engaged in travelling.

Like traveling in ladies underwear?  ?

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