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Wiring diagram for Beta 38 with C-type control panel


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Does anyone have access to a wiring diagram for these engines?

I am fitting an Adverc to ours and I need access to the wiring loom behind the control panel, but its very tightly bundled and (of course) colour-coded.  Unfortunately the manual only tells me a few of the wire colours.  Specifically I want to identify the wires from the ignition switch to the alternator warning lights which are white and run together in a daisy-chain.  For the Adverc I need to run them through a diode block.

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2 minutes ago, CapitalD said:

Does anyone have access to a wiring diagram for these engines?

I am fitting an Adverc to ours and I need access to the wiring loom behind the control panel, but its very tightly bundled and (of course) colour-coded.  Unfortunately the manual only tells me a few of the wire colours.  Specifically I want to identify the wires from the ignition switch to the alternator warning lights which are white and run together in a daisy-chain.  For the Adverc I need to run them through a diode block.

 

No diode block required when I did mine, are you sure you have not misunderstood. There will be a "diode block" between the buzzer and the warning lamp circuitS (note the s) but I can't see why an Adverc needs anything other than to know when the ignition is turned on and you can do that by picking up from the ignition switch terminal.

 

Very happy to be proven wrong though.

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More info. I can see that you might need a diode if you want to connect the extra Adverc warning lamp to the buzzer, but not if you are happy just to have t light up. Unless Adverc has altered things it should only light up on over voltage.

 

 

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2 hours ago, CapitalD said:

Does anyone have access to a wiring diagram for these engines?

The wiring diagrams are in the installation manual for the Beta range of inland waterway engines, which you can download from the Beta web site. https://betamarine.co.uk/resources/Operators_Manuals/10-115T-KC-OM/

You can also download the manuals for just the control panels. https://betamarine.co.uk/literature-downloads-control-panels/

I've not come across any situation with these so far where you can't work out the colour of the wire from them, though I've not tried to do what you are.

Jen

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3 hours ago, CapitalD said:

Does anyone have access to a wiring diagram for these engines?

I am fitting an Adverc to ours and I need access to the wiring loom behind the control panel, but its very tightly bundled and (of course) colour-coded.  Unfortunately the manual only tells me a few of the wire colours.  Specifically I want to identify the wires from the ignition switch to the alternator warning lights which are white and run together in a daisy-chain.  For the Adverc I need to run them through a diode block.

The alternator warning lights are not daisy chained. The domestic one takes power from the domestic alternator B+ . going to  the warming light, then to a relay then back to D+. The relay is switched on from the ignition switch.

 

On "Gamebird", (single alternator) , before I moved the alternator connection from the engine to the domestic bank, the Adverc light would come on until the charge relay connected.  Now that all the Adverc connections are on the same battery as the alternator, it doesn't.

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I have just checked the Adverc wiring diagram.  There is no diode block on the wire that connects to the Ign. on/aux ignition switch terminal. The only diode blocks shown are split charge diodes and that is to show you where the sense wire is connected. I have doubts you would have a split charge dopode but if you do the Adverc will get rid of any voltdrop.

 

Please have another go at the instructions.

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Dear all,

thanks for the very swift replies.  I've attached the Adverc diagram below.  I have the block diagrams from the maintenance manual, thanks.  I was trying to work out where the various wires went when they disappeared into the loom, so I was looking for a layout schematic rather than the block diagram supplied.  The daisy chain I mentioned referred to the while wires  joining the various warning lights (the connection to the ignition switch) which end up in the "white sealed joint" top left of the control panel.  I was looking for the best entry point to insert the diode block.  These wires have very little free play, so difficult to cut and add extra crimp connectors. 

 

 

AdvercWiring.pdf

Sorry.  I didn't mean to make the wiring diagram accessible only by download ...

AdvercWiring.jpg

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1 hour ago, CapitalD said:

Dear all,

thanks for the very swift replies.  I've attached the Adverc diagram below.  I have the block diagrams from the maintenance manual, thanks.  I was trying to work out where the various wires went when they disappeared into the loom, so I was looking for a layout schematic rather than the block diagram supplied.  The daisy chain I mentioned referred to the while wires  joining the various warning lights (the connection to the ignition switch) which end up in the "white sealed joint" top left of the control panel.  I was looking for the best entry point to insert the diode block.  These wires have very little free play, so difficult to cut and add extra crimp connectors. 

 

 

AdvercWiring.pdf 667.22 kB · 1 download

Sorry.  I didn't mean to make the wiring diagram accessible only by download ...

AdvercWiring.jpg

 

Thank you for that.

 

I personally very much doubt that you have the diode block as shown in the Adverc  diagram. It is all but a certainty the Beta uses a relay to energise the domestic alternator and charge warning lamp instead of the diode block. I am sure in your case the Adverc diagram is overcomplicated. If you don't have them more diagrams here:http://www.fullsail.done-that.com/Docs/8. Boat Documentation/4. Manuals/Adverc_installation_basic.pdf but I still don't think they cover your system so one has to extrapolate from what they supply.

 

I agree the engine warning lights positives are daisy-chained and in reality what you are looking for in respect of the diode block connections is any connection that turns on with the ignition so apart from what I say below a piggy-back blade connector would allow you to pick up such a feed from the ignition switch or any of those positives on the engine warning lamps or gauges but the closer to the ignition switch the better. Note piggy-back blades are not considered best practice but will do the job you want with the minimum of fuss. The two wires (brown and the yellow ones) do the following. Brown, wakes up and supplies the Averc when the ignition is on. Yellow provides a positive supply to the overvoltage warning lamp which the  Adverc connects to negative when it needs to illuminate the lamp.

 

The Red cable is vital because its the one the Adverc uses to measure the charging voltage at the batteries and the brown blue seems to measure the alternator output voltage (volt drop on charging cables etc. means they may not be identical.

 

Important note:

I assume you have two alternators so unless you have fitted something to combine both outputs you should consider them to totally separate circuits so the last thing you want is the Adverc "seeing" engine battery/charging voltage is one part and domestic battery/charging voltage in another in case it confuses the Adverc, so that brings us back to the yellow and brown wires.

 

As I said I am all but sure your domestic alternator and warning lamp is energised by a relay so as far as the domestic charging circuit is concerned that relay becomes the ignition  switch. This means that the yellow and brown cables should connect to the output of that relay or the positive side of the domestic charge warning lamp. Simply ignore the engine alternator and engine battery.

 

 

 

Edited by Tony Brooks
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20 hours ago, CapitalD said:

Does anyone have access to a wiring diagram for these engines?

I am fitting an Adverc to ours and I need access to the wiring loom behind the control panel, but its very tightly bundled and (of course) colour-coded.  Unfortunately the manual only tells me a few of the wire colours.  Specifically I want to identify the wires from the ignition switch to the alternator warning lights which are white and run together in a daisy-chain.  For the Adverc I need to run them through a diode block.

You have this twin and combined alternator system ?

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2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

You have this twin and combined alternator system ?

 

It would also be pertinent to ask if he has those two specific alternators because many do not have an F connection so need the alternator modifying to get on a flying lead stuck out the back.

 

Only 9 posts so I suspect he is a new boater and struggling with the technicalities of it all, so may not understand what he has or what needs to be done.

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4 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

You have this twin and combined alternator system ?

Yes we do.  The combination is new to us and designed by Adverc.   We have been using the as-installed independent system until now, but the domestic battery bank has been seriously under-performing.  The Adverc system was installed on the boat when we bought her, but without any wiring and, as it turned out, was also defective.  We fitted an Adverc on our last boat and have been convinced of its merits ever since.

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Many thanks for the clarification.

 

So is the diode block just to the left of the ignition switch on your diagram in place or is it something you have to add.

 

If its something you need to add then I can't see why a piggyback on the ignition switch will not get you the connection for the two feeds you need.

 

image.jpeg.4816c0c6c3eff275a36022ae77bc15ee.jpegImage of Piggyback connectors.

 

Then remove the feed to the engine and domestic charge warning lights and tape them back against the harness and feed them from the (new) diode block as per your diagram.

 

If you did not have an Adverc or  battery sensed alternators then battery problems are to be expected, the split charge diodes will cause up to about 0.7V of volt drop in the charging circuit. At least an Adverc will overcome that while its boosting the charging voltage but not at other times.

 

The two inline diodes seem to be trying to produce volt drop on the  sensing lead to compensate for the split charge diodes. It seems very complicated way of doing things with extra failure points, but it seems you have what you have and have to do your best with it.

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10 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Many thanks for the clarification.

 

So is the diode block just to the left of the ignition switch on your diagram in place or is it something you have to add.

 

...

The diode block was supplied by Adverc as part of the package.  I know about the F connection modification having fitted one of these before.  Straightforward on both the alternators on our engine.

 

Yes, the piggy-back connectors may be the easiest route if there is the physical space.  I'm off to look now.

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I can see no reason you should not pick up the positive to the diode block from the positive (ign.sw.) side of the oil pressure or overheat (if you have one) warning lamp or the equivalent gauge if it's  easier. They are all switched on by the ignition switch and the Adverc won't draw much extra current.

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22 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

I can see no reason you should not pick up the positive to the diode block from the positive (ign.sw.) side of the oil pressure or overheat (if you have one) warning lamp or the equivalent gauge if it's  easier. They are all switched on by the ignition switch and the Adverc won't draw much extra current.

Agreed.  In practice I moved the positive (ign.sw.) side of the alternator warning lights as the input to the diode block and put jumpers back to the warning lamps.  I was right to be suspicious of the space for extra piggy-back connectors.  Just getting the jumpers in was tricky and they were going into the space where another connector had come out!  Done now and waiting for new battery cable to re-connect the alternators to the split-charge diode blocks.  Unfortunately my local chandlers was our of stock.  Thank goodness for the internet.  

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