Are Liverpool boats really the best narrowboats you can get?

[Guest]

Just now, frangar said:

They aren’t. Get over yourself! It used to be my profile pic but for reasons not forum related I removed it. I notice your profile pic isn’t one of you either. 

 

I can well understand that....????

[frangar]

11 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Are you referring to this comment :

 

 

You have obviously not read the threads properly. or seen photos of them being blacked, painted or whatever. An apology will be accepted if offered.

I have had 12 NB's over the last 30+ years.

 

If so you have misunderstood (or I failed to make it clear)

 

You suggested I had never owned a steel boat (NB or WB) I was pointing out that you had failed to see or acknowledge the large number of posts and pictures I have made showing photos of my NB's, comments about things we had done, places we had been etc etc.

It is only in the last couple of years that we sold our last NB.

We have been running concurrently 2x Sea going boats and 1x NB for many years.

 

Your assumption that I have never had NBs is entirely wrong.

 

 

 

I have no doubt that your pipe welding was coded and to specification - the problem is that the Liverpool boats appear to have had no specifications. 

Were the rubbing strakes fully welded, or just tack welded ?

 

When we watched production, it was on a production line with welders on both sides and the base plare / hull flipped over during manufacture, the two welders work did not line up.

There was a collingwood widebeam next to my mooring…the rubbing strakes were only tack welded at the top…it was less than a year old and the rust was streaking the hull from behind the strakes…when it was being made seam welding would perhaps have added 3 or 4 hours to the build time with bare steel and no insulation or fit out…to do it now would be a big undertaking. There’s also been a number of widebeams with the wheel steering connected up so left is right etc. There is a reason they are cheap…at least Sam springer got the basics right. 

[Alan de Enfield]

10 minutes ago, frangar said:

There was a collingwood widebeam next to my mooring…the rubbing strakes were only tack welded at the top…it was less than a year old and the rust was streaking the hull from behind the strakes…when it was being made seam welding would perhaps have added 3 or 4 hours to the build time with bare steel and no insulation or fit out…to do it now would be a big undertaking. There’s also been a number of widebeams with the wheel steering connected up so left is right etc. There is a reason they are cheap…at least Sam springer got the basics right. 

 

The same company in all but name.

Same buildings and same employees and same build practices.

 

Going back a few years :

 

 

To save the LB thing going round and round again, the answer was provided on this forum by one of the LB directors

 

Basically it was that Liverpool Boats did not go bust, but massively scaled down their production and staff mainly due to a very large volume customer taking their orders to another country. They decided to transfer all new orders to Collingwood boat builders that was already a sister company, using part of the same premises.

 

It would seem logical and good business to close one of the businesses if there was only enough business for one, so Liverpool Boats stopped trading. In the light of so many boat builders going bust recently, the general assumption was they LB had done the same, but that was not the case.

[frangar]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The same company in all but name.

Same buildings and same employees and same build practices.

 

Going back a few years :

 

 

To save the LB thing going round and round again, the answer was provided on this forum by one of the LB directors

 

Basically it was that Liverpool Boats did not go bust, but massively scaled down their production and staff mainly due to a very large volume customer taking their orders to another country. They decided to transfer all new orders to Collingwood boat builders that was already a sister company, using part of the same premises.

 

It would seem logical and good business to close one of the businesses if there was only enough business for one, so Liverpool Boats stopped trading. In the light of so many boat builders going bust recently, the general assumption was they LB had done the same, but that was not the case.

Yes. It’s good to point that out as many may be unaware of the link. 

[cheesegas]

I have a 1992 Liverpool boat with an owner fit out - there’s a few design flaws with the back step drainage and gas locker lid but overall well designed. Good engine bay access, solid stern handrail with bracing, big drainage channel in the engine bay and the weld quality is good. Maybe it got worse afterwards, but the original paint still looks good aside from rust spots on the roof at the back. 

 

It’s not been particularly well looked after before me, but it’s only needed a bit of plating at the front. 

Edited June 1, 2021 by cheesegas

[restlessnomad]

1 hour ago, The Bearwood Boster said:

And so the rudeness continues.I wonder how many folk would be as rude in person to a Liverpool boat owner.

telling a person that his boat is substandard/ugly/whatever is rude(unless asked point blank to give honest opinion), making a general point about specific type of boat on internet(whether true or not) is not rude... 

 

are people touchy about boats or it extends to other possessions(house/car/caravan)

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, restlessnomad said:

telling a person that his boat is substandard/ugly/whatever is rude(unless asked point blank to give honest opinion), making a general point about specific type of boat on internet(whether true or not) is not rude... 

 

are people touchy about boats or it extends to other possessions(house/car/caravan)

 

It comes down to wanting reassurance from their peers that they have not made a mistake. It is very difficult for anyone to admit to mistakes or having regrets about a decision, particularly when it comes to 'big-ticket' items.

[robtheplod]

So, what is the league table on boat builders for desirability/quality etc? - would be interesting to know.....

[Murflynn]

9 hours ago, cheesegas said:

I have a 1992 Liverpool boat with an owner fit out - there’s a few design flaws with the back step drainage and gas locker lid but overall well designed. Good engine bay access, solid stern handrail with bracing, big drainage channel in the engine bay and the weld quality is good. Maybe it got worse afterwards, but the original paint still looks good aside from rust spots on the roof at the back. 

 

It’s not been particularly well looked after before me, but it’s only needed a bit of plating at the front. 

 

if AdE had his way posts like that would be removed by the mods.  

[Alan de Enfield]

39 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

 

if AdE had his way posts like that would be removed by the mods.  

 

Not at all, you do me an injustice.

 

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I dont criticise a persons opinion I criticise the product if criticsm is justified (or praise where that is justified). From this thread it appears that there are several other 'old timers' whose thoughts & experiences of Liverpool / Colingwood boat are similar to mine.

[Tonka]

Perhaps what the op has omitted is that he was told " that they are the best boat for £1"

[Nightwatch]

12 hours ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

Well that was a very good way of alienating potential customers who happen to own Liverpool boats...

Liverpool Boats wasn’t mentioned in Dan’s post. Maybe you assumed he was referring to Liverpool boats. I don’t think he was.

 

So there! Na na nana nah!

[Athy]

12 hours ago, The Bearwood Boster said:

And so the rudeness continues.I wonder how many folk would be as rude in person to a Liverpool boat owner.

Why should they be? There's nothing wrong with honest criticism, be it positive or negative. I may not like my friend's new car but that doesn't mean that I don't like my friend.

We would have had another Liverpool, after owning a Devizes Narrowboats craft (Liverpool shell) for several years, but circumstances enabled us to move up to a Mel Davis which is indubitably a better boat. But the LB/Devizes was excellent value for money and served us well.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Athy

[cheesegas]

50 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

 

if AdE had his way posts like that would be removed by the mods.  

There’s design flaws with all boats...I recently had mine blacked, and the guy was cursing the designer of the Reeves boat which was in before me for an engine swap...apparently a chunk of the cabin had to be removed just to get the engine out. They then had to strip the new engine down to a short block just to get it in the hole. Liverpool are probably simply and cheaply designed which has its flaws (gas locker and rear steps fill up with rain...), but maintenance seems to be pretty easy. Only seen a couple of Liverpool hulls though. 

[Nightwatch]

I have owned two boats in 19 years, a Mick Sivewright and the present one. Just had a age survey on the present one. I’m pleased to say that apart from two smal areas (two inch circle) of pitting, that we had rectified, there was nowt else of concern.

 

I have not owned a Liverpool (Collingwood) boat nor a springer or any other boat that some consider below par. Posters, some, on this particular forum are very entertaining with their sometimes classroom style ‘discussions’.

[Athy]

1 hour ago, robtheplod said:

So, what is the league table on boat builders for desirability/quality etc? - would be interesting to know.....

I think it's been discussed elsewhere in these pages, and the consensus is that there is no consensus, because everyone has different requirements from their boats. So, for example, a person seeking a high-spec, high-tech modern luxury boat for comfortable long-range cruising would not consider a rivetty Brinklow trad desirable, whereas others would see it as the apex of the boatbuilder's craft. Meanwhile, the customer seeking a day/weekend boat might find an Aintree Beetle ideal. And so on and so fifth.....

[Bee]

Crumbs. Its ever so easy to start an argument. Went to Norbury Junction yesterday, Had a picnic in the sun, walked the dog, looked at the boats. All looked lovely, didn't realise that the net curtains were twitching as people slagged off various boats. As always there were half a dozen boats that I didn't like much and some that I did. A friend who had half an old wooden boat said once that he really didn't give a toss about other peoples opinions on boats as he had the same view out of the window as they did. Similarly there were a couple on a short Springer that seemed to be enjoying themselves, they bought that boat as it suited their budget and served their purpose. We all get a bit of boat envy but hell's bells most boats are pretty good these days.

[blackrose]

18 hours ago, OTL said:

I was told by a broker that LIverpool boats are the most sustainable liverboard vessels due to their headroom and low gas usage.

 

I have heard things about pitting issues so I'm not sure if this statement is true.

 

Any feedback will be greatly appreciated.

 

Yes, I have a Liverpool boat and my gas bottles last for ages - I'm convinced that's the reason. ?

 

The headroom thing might actually be true but I'm a shortarse so anything feels like a cathedral. 

 

I also heard things about the steel used for Liverpool boats shells being poor quality when I had mine built. People told me it was more susceptible to pitting and was so brittle that I wouldn't be able to drill through it. 16 years later I can confirm that both of these statements are complete nonsense. The steel grade is 43A from memory, the same as used by more expensive boat builders who are also unlikely to know where their steel actually originated. 

 

In terms of problems with Liverpool boats, since they build more boats than any other builder at the time then one would expect to hear about more problems. Lots of people here seem to be talking about Collingwood boats in the same breath on this thread and equating them with Liverpool boats. While the same premises may have been taken over and some of the staff may may have become Collingwood employees, Collingwood boats are not Liverpool boats - they are different products. Liverpool boats were always built to a budget, but from what I have seen Collingwoods are built to a tighter budget.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 2, 2021 by blackrose

[doratheexplorer]

13 hours ago, The Bearwood Boster said:

We've had our Liverpool boat from new in 2004 & also visited the factory during the build process.I'm not daft enough to think they're the best boats,but they're blooming good value for money.Our boat has been all over the canals & has done us proud.There seems to be a lot of snobbery about/here and to compare them with Trabants is just plain rude !  

I love Trabants.  See it as a compliment.

Edited June 2, 2021 by doratheexplorer

[Athy]

20 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

Yes, I have a Liverpool boat and my gas bottles last for ages - I'm convinced that's the reason. ?

 

Lots of people here seem to be talking about Collingwood boats in the same breath on this thread and equating them with Liverpool boats. While the same premises may have been taken over and some of the staff may may have become Collingwood employees, Collingwood boats are not Liverpool boats - they are different products. Liverpool boats were always built to a budget, but from what I have seen Collingwoods are built to a tighter budget.

 

 

 

 

To be fair, I think there's a close relationship. The McNaughton family is still involved, though whether they actually own the company (as Stan McNaughton did with LB) I'm not sure.

[Tracy D'arth]

4 minutes ago, Athy said:

To be fair, I think there's a close relationship. The McNaughton family is still involved, though whether they actually own the company (as Stan McNaughton did with LB) I'm not sure.

From Co House.....

 

Directors & Secretaries

Name	Role	Date Of Birth
MR ALAN MACNAUGHTAN	Director	Jul 1979
MS ANNE MACNAUGHTAN	Company Secretary	Dec 1981
NORTH WEST REGISTRATION SERVICES (1994) LIMITED	Company Secretary	-
Mrs Christine Susan Avis	Director	May 1964

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Nightwatch said:

Liverpool Boats wasn’t mentioned in Dan’s post. Maybe you assumed he was referring to Liverpool boats. I don’t think he was.

 

So there! Na na nana nah!

 

Well it would be extremely strange if he wasnt referencing  Liverpool boats given the thread title and the critical reference to the roof shape which is typical of boats from that particular builder.

Edited June 2, 2021 by The Happy Nomad

[matty40s]

Just now, The Happy Nomad said:

 

Well it would be extremely strange if he wasnt referencing  Liverpool boats given the thread title and the critical reference to the roof shape which is typical of the marque.

No, marque are being discussed elsewhere.

[Athy]

30 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

From Co House.....

 

Directors & Secretaries

Name	Role	Date Of Birth
MR ALAN MACNAUGHTAN	Director	Jul 1979
MS ANNE MACNAUGHTAN	Company Secretary	Dec 1981
NORTH WEST REGISTRATION SERVICES (1994) LIMITED	Company Secretary	-
Mrs Christine Susan Avis	Director	May 1964

Thanks. Stan's son and daughter, I believe. Alan built the shell of our last boat.

I'm not sure whether Stan is still with us, but I did find a reference on the internet to a company called Stanley McNaughton Pleasure Boats in Liverpool.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Athy

[restlessnomad]

2 hours ago, Athy said:

Why should they be? There's nothing wrong with honest criticism, be it positive or negative. I may not like my friend's new car but that doesn't mean that I don't like my friend.

We would have had another Liverpool, after owning a Devizes Narrowboats craft (Liverpool shell) for several years, but circumstances enabled us to move up to a Mel Davis which is indubitably a better boat. But the LB/Devizes was excellent value for money and served us well.

virtual greenie..

literally the point of the forum is to put your view forward (and may be defend it if you feel like)

 Individuals deserve respect not products or ideas. If you are associated with a product(made it or own it) or idea(religious, social or even scientific discovery), be prepared to hear criticism(valid or not). If you have mental health issues(at least 1 member has suggested) that makes you incapable of hearing anything unpleasant, better not frequent a forum like this.

Edited June 2, 2021 by restlessnomad