Jump to content

?head gasket - advice please?


andy4502

Featured Posts

Hi hive mind,

 

Have a 1990's 3 cyl diesel (either vetus or thorny 3DM - not sure). Over last few trips have had occasional white smoke bursts with strange running (speeding up). It was due to go for service/clean bay/and bottom engine gasket),.....however......on trip today vast white smoke, engine runs high and out of control, took a while for engine stop to work. On restarting still smoking if try to use high revs. Got back to marina on low tickover etc.

 

Question is - do you think its worth trying this:

 

KALIMEX LTD ST5501 Coolant Leak Repair

my logic is - do the easiest thing first - what do you reckon?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sounds to me that it is trying to run away by burning excess fuel or the sump oil. I would not suspect the head gasket yet.

Check all crankcase breathers are not blocked or feeding oil into the inlet of the engine.

Could be a broken injector sticking open overfueling the cylinder affected. Try cracking open the fuel connection to the injectors one at a time when it is running too fast.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

engine oil checked on dipstick is fine and normal, no issues there. Coolant doesnt really need that much topping up so cant see what the F is going on really unless its head gasket

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with Tracy, it does not sound like a head gasket because a bad leak would probably cause overheating and a very minor one could well  emulsify the engine oil. As you say the oil level is OK it sounds more like a governor problem to me.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, andy4502 said:

depressing - i have no idea at all how to start fixing what you have described!!

 

It isn't so bad. You are a step closer to solving the problem. At least now you won't be trying to fix the thing that is probably fine using a product that likely wouldn't have fixed a head gasket fail anyway. A picture or three of the engine from various angles will help the experts here identify what you have and point out where the crank case breathers are to check, for example.

 

Jen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, andy4502 said:

going back to try the stuff (as i said cant make it worse tbf)

You might have said it, but I wouldn't.

I once agreed to help someone change the head gasket on his BMC 1.5.  What he didn't tell me was that he'd added an over the counter coolant repair/liquid head gasket/pour it and forget it bottle of splodge the previous year as he suspected coolant was entering a combustion chamber.

The fact that 12 months later his problem clearly hadn't been cured wasn't the problem.  The hassle was that after removing the rockers and head nuts we couldn't move the head. 

After purloining a stud remover we withdrew all of the head studs and were thrilled to discover that even a block and tackle couldn't break the seal between head and block and was threatening to lift the whole unit off its mounts. 

Lateral twisting with a block of hardwood and very large thump'ometer eventually broke the seal caused by an amalgamation of the compound, block, head and gasket.

 

I agree with your principle of start with the easiest first, however in your case, I haven't seen any obvious evidence that points at head gasket over fuel delivery.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, andy4502 said:

havent got current pics :( - going back to try the stuff (as i said cant make it worse tbf) and will load some then (only got old ones)

 

It seems odd to ask for advice / suggestions and when you get them say "I don't understand what you are talking about, I'm just going to do what I intended anyway"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

@bizzard wins pedant of the day and it has only just gone 9am! ?

The white stuff we see is water droplets that have condensed from the steam. Not on this boat engine though.

That's it.  When yer boils yer kettle the little invisible gap between the spout and the visible water vapour is steam.  Vely hots, don't stick yer finger in there.

Edited by bizzard
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My rationale for using this stuff before expensive (as i cant do it) work on the engine is:

  • the way my engine has been behaving (misbehaving) certainly seems to fit the descriptions of head gasket sorry if i haven't described well
  • the engine is 30 years old and certainly in need of replacement as i believe (have owned 4 years) has been badly maintained
  • i need it to work well enough to get to an engineer (am at tewkesbury and need to get to evesham/driotwich) and even when it was working i struggle against the current on the avon let alone the severn
  • Am open to other suggestions 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, andy4502 said:

Am open to other suggestions 

 

Try and provide the requested inforation / photos.

 

Those with the knowledge and skills can then point out things for you to check, and, how to check them. At least then you will start to have an understanding of what it isn't and can concentrate on what it is that is casuing the problem.

 

It is highly unlikely to be a head gasket if :

There is no oil in the water

The oil is not emulsified

The water does not need topping up

The oil does not need topping up

There is no 'rusty' drip marks down the outside of the engine

There are no oil runs / stains on the outside of the engine.

 

 

 

 

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Steam will vanish very quickly especially in hot dry weather like this. White smoke will linger. If the engine is trying to run away stuffing a rag in the air intake should stop it eventually or a CO2 extinguisher. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, andy4502 said:

My rationale for using this stuff before expensive (as i cant do it) work on the engine is:

  • the way my engine has been behaving (misbehaving) certainly seems to fit the descriptions of head gasket sorry if i haven't described well
  • the engine is 30 years old and certainly in need of replacement as i believe (have owned 4 years) has been badly maintained
  • i need it to work well enough to get to an engineer (am at tewkesbury and need to get to evesham/driotwich) and even when it was working i struggle against the current on the avon let alone the severn
  • Am open to other suggestions 

 

If your engine is actually the one you name (Mitsubishi based engine) then it has an inline injector pump and they tend not to suffer revving up when the fuel supply is restricted/reduced.  If, however, its something else with a Distributor injector pump with hydraulic governor then a lack of fuel may well cause it to rev up so we are totally dependant upon our correct identification of the engine. Let's have a photo so we can confirm what it actually is.

 

I simply can not work out how you have come to suspecting a head gasket fault with the symptoms you declare and it seems to me others agree. If water was getting into the combustion chamber and thereby making steam and increasing the cylinder pressure I would expect pressure to also go the other way - into the cooling system but that would give other symptoms that Alan's list of questions it designed to rule in or out.

 

I am sure the large marina just upstream of Tewksbury will have an engineer and many will travel locally. There is also Brandon marine that is a bit further upstream and Upton Marina all of which I would expect to be within travelling distance for their tame engineers.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, andy4502 said:

 

  • the way my engine has been behaving (misbehaving) certainly seems to fit the descriptions of head gasket sorry if i haven't described well

The message should be pretty clear that nobody else on here thinks that the head gasket is the issue. So before you dive in solving the wrong problem and possibly making matters worse, use the helpful folk here to diagnose the more likely reasons for your problems.

Quote
  • the engine is 30 years old and certainly in need of replacement as i believe (have owned 4 years) has been badly maintained

 

Just because the engine is 30 years old, and maybe neglected, doesn't mean it needs replacement. The base engine is used in far more onerous conditions in plant and equipment. What is needs is some proper maintenance.  As oil and coolant are not contaminated and at normal levels, that suggests the basics are fine. Although these should be changed as part of the regular maintenance cycle.

Quote
  • i need it to work well enough to get to an engineer (am at tewkesbury and need to get to evesham/driotwich) and even when it was working i struggle against the current on the avon let alone the severn

In what sense are you struggling against the current? I have travelled in a lower powered boat on the Avon, Severn and other rivers, and sure, you go upstream slower than when coming down. But I've never 'struggled'. I assume you aren't trying to punch flood currents.

If the engine is overheating you may have a problem with insufficient cooling - quite common on middle-of-the-road narrowboats with skin tanks which are too small - adequate for pottering along the canal, but not for harder work on rivers.

Otherwise you may well have a problem with the fuel supply obstruction, air getting into the fuel system, or the governor sticking. All have been discussed on here previously.

Edited by David Mack
  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Bee said:

Steam will vanish very quickly especially in hot dry weather like this. White smoke will linger. If the engine is trying to run away stuffing a rag in the air intake should stop it eventually or a CO2 extinguisher. 

But steam is invisible anyway. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am even starting to wonder if the prop is fouled and occasionally gets "fully wrapped" so it has losses "grip" on the water. Not sure if its possible but the suggestion it would struggle going up stream makes me wonder about all sorts of odd and rare possibilities like the shaft partially seizing and seizing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ok - thanks for advice and maybe i am going down wrong road. Would the additive be a bad idea anyway? (obvs some people on here are saying it would be a stupid thing to do). Here are some pics of the engine from a year ago. Since then there has been oil leak with emulsified/white addition under engine and this is what she was going for repair for (renew electrical connections, take out engine, clean bay, renew ?bottom gasket - all as suggested by RCR person who came to see boat when i broke down).

IMG_0679.JPG

engine plates

IMG_0683.JPG

IMG_0685.JPG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mitsubishi and probably Thorneycroft marinized.

 

Where is this oil leak coming from? If its anywhere but the head gasket then it makes a head gasket fault less likely. Normally any oil and fuel in the drip tray just floats on top of any water although it will emulsify in time so if the emulsion is only in the drip tray it is probably normal.

 

That fuel pump has a silly  little filter under the bayonet end, its worth taking it out and seeing if its blocked. That engine should self bleed if you leave the ignition on for a while before cranking.

 

No idea what a "bottom gasket" is unless its the sump gasket but there are other things that can leak down there, especially on older engines like crankshaft oil seals so the actual leek need properly identifying by cleaning off the lower part of the engine, then running it while looking for the oil leak.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.