Replacing wooden doors with steel

[cheesegas]

Hi all, thanks for the help on the past threads...stern steps sorted, fitted a new drive plate, got to reseal a couple of windows and my cheap boat is starting to look a little better!

 

Next job is to replace the hardwood stern doors. Boat is a cruiser stern with external steps and an offset inwards opening stable door, no hatch. The current doors aren't rotten and look good, but they're severely warped due to damp so water gets in the gaps. I'd like to replace them with steel for security, got a couple of quotes but I think I have the time towards the start of summer to build some myself for a lot less. Replaced my elderly MIG with a tiny MMA but I think I need a bit more practice before I'm good enough! Looking at having the steel cut to size at a place near where I work, and do the welding and fitting myself.

 

I need some ideas on how the locks are typically fitted, and how water is prevented from dripping down the top half of the door and into the gap. And how it seals against the weather with the doorframe. If anyone's got similar inwards opening doors I'd really appreciate a quick photo so I can get a better idea of how to build it.

 

Idea is to have a deadbolting rim lock and a light duty bolt on the bottom half, and a combo night latch with deadbolt on the top half. I want to make sure I can escape quickly in case of fire/sinking/aggressive goose ingress so when I'm in, only the light duty bolt and latch would be used.

 

Whilst walking around I've been having a look at some boats with a similar setup, but I don't want to look too much like a thief checking out locks and doors...

[Jen-in-Wellies]

They will need lining on the inside to prevent condensation. Wood would be the most likely, but other materials are possible. Just so the inside surface is at boat interior temperature.

[Stilllearning]

13 minutes ago, cheesegas said:

Hi all, thanks for the help on the past threads...stern steps sorted, fitted a new drive plate, got to reseal a couple of windows and my cheap boat is starting to look a little better!

 

Next job is to replace the hardwood stern doors. Boat is a cruiser stern with external steps and an offset inwards opening stable door, no hatch. The current doors aren't rotten and look good, but they're severely warped due to damp so water gets in the gaps. I'd like to replace them with steel for security, got a couple of quotes but I think I have the time towards the start of summer to build some myself for a lot less. Replaced my elderly MIG with a tiny MMA but I think I need a bit more practice before I'm good enough! Looking at having the steel cut to size at a place near where I work, and do the welding and fitting myself.

 

I need some ideas on how the locks are typically fitted, and how water is prevented from dripping down the top half of the door and into the gap. And how it seals against the weather with the doorframe. If anyone's got similar inwards opening doors I'd really appreciate a quick photo so I can get a better idea of how to build it.

 

Idea is to have a deadbolting rim lock and a light duty bolt on the bottom half, and a combo night latch with deadbolt on the top half. I want to make sure I can escape quickly in case of fire/sinking/aggressive goose ingress so when I'm in, only the light duty bolt and latch would be used.

 

Whilst walking around I've been having a look at some boats with a similar setup, but I don't want to look too much like a thief checking out locks and doors...

Get brave, and knock on a few doors and explain why you are there? Best practice and the wrong solutions are the two things you need to be learning now, before you go near your welding rig.

[Bee]

locks for thin doors, rebated stable doors, rebated doors in general and boat doors in general are really hard to get, its easy to end up with a great ugly padlock or a wardrobe door lock. if you have a working lock at the moment I would be tempted to incorporate that into your new doors. As for weatherproofing the top gap I would fix a lip above it, self tappers or drill and tap is safer and probably easier.

[Alan de Enfield]

8 minutes ago, Bee said:

locks for thin doors, rebated stable doors, rebated doors in general and boat doors in general are really hard to get, its easy to end up with a great ugly padlock or a wardrobe door lock. if you have a working lock at the moment I would be tempted to incorporate that into your new doors. As for weatherproofing the top gap I would fix a lip above it, self tappers or drill and tap is safer and probably easier.

 

The problem with inwards opening stable doors is the gap between the bottom and top door.

If you have an overlap coming down from the top door, then you cannot open the top door only (as you may want to do for ventilation or to keep the dog inside)

If you dont have an overlap then tou get rain splatter coming thru the gap.

 

We ended up going back to a solid (one piece door) as we could not make the stable-door idea work for us.

 

 

1 hour ago, cheesegas said:

Boat is a cruiser stern with external steps and an offset inwards opening stable door,

 

 

How is the gap in the current stable-door sealed between the top & bottom doors ?

[cheesegas]

15 minutes ago, Bee said:

locks for thin doors, rebated stable doors, rebated doors in general and boat doors in general are really hard to get, its easy to end up with a great ugly padlock or a wardrobe door lock. if you have a working lock at the moment I would be tempted to incorporate that into your new doors. As for weatherproofing the top gap I would fix a lip above it, self tappers or drill and tap is safer and probably easier.

I've currently got a standard Yale lock on the top half and a manual bolt on the bottom, there's off-the-shelf heavy duty surface mounting locks which I can modify to fit a thin door fairly easily though, something like this on the bottom half https://www.lockmonster.co.uk/item/lince-rim-deadlock-3916-keyed-both-sides-a-l29680 . On the top half would be a deadlocking Yale latch. I'd like to avoid making holes in the door to keep it weatherproof.

 

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The problem with inwards opening stable doors is the gap between the bottom and top door.

If you have an overlap coming down from the top door, then you cannot open the top door only (as you may want to do for ventilation or to keep the dog inside)

If you dont have an overlap then tou get rain splatter coming thru the gap.

 

We ended up going back to a solid (one piece door) as we could not make the stable-door idea work for us.

 

How is the gap in the current stable-door sealed between the top & bottom doors ?

The current stable door is sealed with a rubber strip which works ok, but it's reliant on the door being fairly thick to make a seal. Good point about the overlap...maybe weld a piece of T section onto the top half and angle on the bottom with a rubber strip to make it seal nicely, with a horizontal lip being formed by the T section. Done a quick drawing below. It does rely on

 

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, cheesegas said:

Done a quick drawing below.

 

That does give you two 'sharp edges' on the inside which you could fall against. (Unless the wooden lining it thinker than the depth of the internal edges of the angle plates).

 

It is a solution but, in my mind' not a very pretty one.

[David Mack]

42 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The problem with inwards opening stable doors is the gap between the bottom and top door.

If you have an overlap coming down from the top door, then you cannot open the top door only (as you may want to do for ventilation or to keep the dog inside)

If you dont have an overlap then tou get rain splatter coming thru the gap.

If you have an inward opening door the same issue arises between the bottom of the door and the door threshold. Outwards opening doors are preferable for this reason, but not an option for the OP's situation of a door at the bottom of steps down from deck level.

[Alan de Enfield]

10 minutes ago, David Mack said:

If you have an inward opening door the same issue arises between the bottom of the door and the door threshold. Outwards opening doors are preferable for this reason, but not an option for the OP's situation of a door at the bottom of steps down from deck level.

 

We had exactly the same problem with our 'Hallmark Millenium' narrowboat (The one we bought "sunk recovered" because the drain hole at the bottom of the steps had become blocked so the water overflowed over the threshold and 'filled' the cabin.)

 

I even looked at the possibility of having the top-half opening outwards as there was more space (as the steps were obviously angled backwards) and the bottom door opening inwards, it sort of worked, but I reckon in an emergency you'd forget which door opened which way.

Not ideal, so ended up with one solid door.

Edited May 26, 2021 by Alan de Enfield

[Mad Harold]

Would a strip of damp proof membrane perhaps about 4 inches wide screwed and sealed to the bottom of the top door and overlapping the joint work?

 

 

[Bee]

Outward opening doors can be made to work without too much trouble. Inward opening doors are always fighting against the laws of nature. I suppose the top half could open outwards and the bottom half inwards but I can't quite work it out without drawing it and I bet there's something I've missed. Maybe a solid door with an opening 'porthole' in the top would be a good compromise.

[Tracy D'arth]

Pocketed sliding door?

[cheesegas]

Thanks all! To address the above 

 

Sliding door - good idea, but the electrical panel is to the right of the door so it would mean moving a lot of it...rewiring is on the list of things to do, but not quite yet!

 

Overlapping flap - as the top needs to open seperately, it would jam on the rubber as it's on the outside

 

Alan - yep, I got this boat for cheap because the same thing happened but not as serious...the drain holes blocked and the woodwork/floor by the door rotted under the laminate floor. The lining would indeed be the width of the steel angle, updated drawing below. 

 

It needs to open inwards as the bed blocks the lower half of the door from opening when it's fully extended, so I'd like it to remain an escape route. 

 

I did look at boats with internal steps and outwards opening doors, but I didn't like how much space the steps took up inside and a couple had water damage from a leaky slide. Personal choice, I know....

[Kieron G]

If the original doors are solid and look good from inside could you clad them on the outside by coach bolting a steel skin on them. If you use 3-4mm steel and strengthen it with welded on strips it could be strong enough to straighten the original doors when you tighten the bolts I guess. 

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Pocketed sliding door?

With little bars across it 

Edited May 26, 2021 by ditchcrawler

[Tacet]

Is it possible to work something clever with rising butt hinges on the top part and/or falling butt on the lower section?  In theory, you could have a properly weathered join between the two sections - and be able to have either section open.  Probably introduce a different set of problems too!

 

Otherwise it will need a projecting weather bar on the bottom of both sections, throwing water away from the respective joints.