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New T&C's - merged thread


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7 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

What makes you think that CaRT do not know about it? Much mire likely that they do but cannot do anything about it, or.possible, are actually doing something but cannot tell you and it takes a long time anyway.

Explain?

Maybe they do know. Sure is hideous though...

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1 hour ago, Mike Todd said:

Whilst I do not have any personal issues with the T&Cs what I would have strong issue with is if it were suggested that the interests of minorities (especially disadvantaged ones) were being ignored or ridden over roughshod. It is fashionable to decry Human Rights - until you personally need them, that is. There is a famous saying about this. 

I absolutely agree. The interests of minorities shouldn't be trampled on. But I'm waiting to be told what these interests are, and the nature of the minorities.  If it's just people who live on boats who basically want to be moored in one place without the expense of renting a mooring, then I'm not sure the whinging is justified. That's like folk in houses refusing to pay council tax because they don't like the council's politics.

There is a strong argument for opening up cheap moorings for residential boats in town and cities, but this isn't what is being discussed. The new t&cs don't seem to have disadvantaged anyone on here yet.

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6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Why read it.

What are you going to do if you disagree with their policy of providing your personal information to any one THEY deem as needing it?

They can pass my information on to anyone they consider should have it. I have nothing to hide and see no reason for throwing up my  hands in horror and going on about conspirancy theories .

 

Haggis

 

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56 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Why read it.

What are you going to do if you disagree with their policy of providing your personal information to any one THEY deem as needing it?

Seeing as how my personal info is noted and sold on by Facebook, YouTube, the NHS, every shop I use my card in, my bank, motorway camera operators, the Revenue, the DVLC, my pension provider, my ex-employer, if I rented my house my landlord, the garage where I get petrol, and whoever runs the CCTV on the High Street, I can't see there's any privacy left to worry about.

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20 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

It rather depends on due diligence when people ask for information. I am thinking of someone claiming you have committed a misdemeanor like mooring on the Thames by miss quoting your registration number.

I think that requests from boaters and members of the public will not be complied with but ones from for example the Police will be. That is what I took from the new terms.

Haggis

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32 minutes ago, haggis said:

I think that requests from boaters and members of the public will not be complied with but ones from for example the Police will be. That is what I took from the new terms.

Haggis

The Privacy policy reads that way to me.

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The only part of the very standard splurge on the new Data Protection statement that amused me and showed CaRT up for the shambles it often is, is the part in the International Section where they state that they may share our information 'with other E U countries'.

Has no one told them we've left?

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4 minutes ago, Ex Brummie said:

The only part of the very standard splurge on the new Data Protection statement that amused me and showed CaRT up for the shambles it often is, is the part in the International Section where they state that they may share our information 'with other E U countries'.

Has no one told them we've left?

 

Ooooops.

 

 

Whoops! | Cactus Hugs

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12 hours ago, haggis said:

I think that requests from boaters and members of the public will not be complied with but ones from for example the Police will be. That is what I took from the new terms.

Haggis

I think you missed out Parking/Mooring Enforcement Agencies.

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19 minutes ago, matty40s said:

I think you missed out Parking/Mooring Enforcement Agencies.

I've just gone back and read how C&RT collect and use personal data and I don't see any mention of parking/mooring agencies. The EA is mentioned but nothing further.  Where does it say anything about moorings agencies? From my reading of it, I don't see how such and agency would be given personal info. I can see how these agencies could say on their notices that they would get info from C&RT but that is a different thing from C&RT actually giving it.

 

In fact it implies that not all requests from Police etc will be complied with when it states " relevant agency has demonstrated a proper legal basis for requesting personal information (e.g. prevention and detection of crime, apprehension and prosecution of offenders, administration of justice or collection of taxes)"

 

It would be useful (to me and others) if you could let us know the source of the information. 

 

haggis 

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15 minutes ago, haggis said:

It would be useful (to me and others) if you could let us know the source of the information. 

 

C&RT are saying that if you fail to comply with their T&Cs they can provide your information to anyone they feel may need it (including individuals)

 

Existing (2015) T&Cs (Which from memory NABO took advice on and the conclusion was it contravened the Data Protection Act) which you / we have all 'agreed' to for the last 6 years

 

7.8 You agree that we may provide your relevant personal details including your contact details such as your name and address to any person (or the insurer of any person) who we believe has a reasonable interest in an incident or alleged incident involving the Boat which will generally be the case where for example personal injury or damage to property may have occurred.

 

7.9 You agree that where we believe you have failed to comply with the Conditions, we may exchange information relating to you and/ or the Boat with third parties who are assisting us in managing the situation such as contractors, mooring providers, individuals or organisations with a legitimate interest or duty in exchanging information about you.

 

 

And in the new 2021 T&Cs :

 

10.13.You agree that We may provide Your relevant personal details including Your contact details such as Your name and address to anyone (or their insurer) who We believe has a legitimate interest to have the details. For example, following an incident or alleged incident involving the Boat where personal injury or damage to property may have occurred.

 

10.14.You agree that where We believe You have failed to comply with the Conditions, We may exchange information relating to You and/ or the Boat with third parties who are assisting Us. This may include contractors, mooring providers and individuals or organisations with a legitimate interest or duty in exchanging information about You

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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58 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

And in the new 2021 T&Cs :

 

10.13.You agree that We may provide Your relevant personal details including Your contact details such as Your name and address to anyone (or their insurer) who We believe has a legitimate interest to have the details. For example, following an incident or alleged incident involving the Boat where personal injury or damage to property may have occurred.

 

10.14.You agree that where We believe You have failed to comply with the Conditions, We may exchange information relating to You and/ or the Boat with third parties who are assisting Us. This may include contractors, mooring providers and individuals or organisations with a legitimate interest or duty in exchanging information about You

This not quite what the Privacy Policy for boaters says. I think the main thing to keep in mind is that the organisation requesting info has to have a "legitimate interest ".  I for one am happy with the privacy policy and I will continue to keep and licence a boat on C&RTs waterways and while I am sure you feel you are being helpful pointing out to us all how nasty and devious C&RT is and how glad you are that you have left, it always has a trace of sour grapes about it. You are not alone!!  

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29 minutes ago, haggis said:

and while I am sure you feel you are being helpful pointing out to us all how nasty and devious C&RT is and how glad you are that you have left, it always has a trace of sour grapes about it

 

I did not volunteer the information, it was quoted by another poster, you asked for it because you could't find it, I knew where it was, I provided it for you.

 

Sometimes you cannot do right for doing wrong. !

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If CRT contract out the collection of mooring fees or penalries, then the subcontractor has an interest in your personal info, ie name and contact details. As almost every firm makes a bit extra by flogging this off, it aint gonna stay private very long. Although as most of these are car park companies that already have these details, plus a photo of your car with you driving it, I think it's a bit late to worry.

Privacy  in any meaningful sense, ended with the invention first of computers and then the internet.

Edited by Arthur Marshall
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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I did not volunteer the information, it was quoted by another poster, you asked for it because you could't find it, I knew where it was, I provided it for you.

 

Sometimes you cannot do right for doing wrong. !

I know you are trying to be helpful and I did wonder if what you posted was in response to what Matty had said but i didn't see any mention of  parking /mooring restriction agencies so didn't connect the two. I must learn to read the subtext of what C&RT say as it apparently doesn't mean just what it says ? 

 

haggis

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1 hour ago, haggis said:

I know you are trying to be helpful and I did wonder if what you posted was in response to what Matty had said but i didn't see any mention of  parking /mooring restriction agencies so didn't connect the two. I must learn to read the subtext of what C&RT say as it apparently doesn't mean just what it says ? 

 

haggis

 

"Mooring providers and third parties who are assisting us" (to enforce the T&Cs)

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On 25/05/2021 at 10:12, magpie patrick said:

 

IIRC correctly CRT tried this, or rather BW did, and found they had no statutory basis to do so - there is one licence, a pleasure boat licence, and you must comply with one or the other condition to have one. Do they have the powers to determine that there is a different type of licence? 

I haven't read the whole thread yet but if they cannot offer different types of licence (CC & boat with mooring) then they will (on paper) just offer the one type but offer a discount to boats with a recognised home mooring

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11 minutes ago, Jess-- said:

I haven't read the whole thread yet but if they cannot offer different types of licence (CC & boat with mooring) then they will (on paper) just offer the one type but offer a discount to boats with a recognised home mooring

 

The law allows then to do so, and split it into as many categories as they wish.

 

 

The only controlling feature is that the all the others must be a factor of the 'standard licence', my proposal was to make the leisure licence for a 12m NB (say) £2000, then for a boat with a home mooring they could give 50% discount, for a CC boat maybe nil discount etc etc.

 

It is all detailed earlier in the thread.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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26 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

"Mooring providers and third parties who are assisting us" (to enforce the T&Cs)

Does C&RT use the car park type of company to control moorings ? I know they are used on the Thames but that is EA waters. Do C & RT use such companies too ?  I read that as meaning marinas etc who provide moorings on the canals and it would seem to not be an invasion of privacy to share personal info with them. They probably hold a lot of the same info anyway. Name, address ,phone number email address, insurance and BSS details. 

 

Haggis

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1 minute ago, haggis said:

Does C&RT use the car park type of company to control moorings ? I know they are used on the Thames but that is EA waters. Do C & RT use such companies too ?  I read that as meaning marinas etc who provide moorings on the canals and it would seem to not be an invasion of privacy to share personal info with them. They probably hold a lot of the same info anyway. Name, address ,phone number email address, insurance and BSS details. 

 

Haggis

Have you seen the notices at long term moorings, can't remember all the details but I think thats an outsourced company 

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1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

Have you seen the notices at long term moorings, can't remember all the details but I think thats an outsourced company 

No, I haven't noticed any . Must look more closely. I wondered if such companies were used in view of what  Matty and Alan said

 

Haggis

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