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What are the options in the Liverpool area for hard standings "with benefits" suitable for a fitting out operation?

Hopefully that have usable machine/ woodworking shops.

 

 

 

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44 minutes ago, David HK said:

What are the options in the Liverpool area for hard standings "with benefits" suitable for a fitting out operation?

Hopefully that have usable machine/ woodworking shops.

 

 

 

 

I'm sure you have investigated this thoroughly but just in case >..............

 

The building of commercial craft (such as you are planning) does not come under the auspices of the RCR but under the much more stringent MCA requirements.

Information is readily available.

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6 minutes ago, David HK said:

And that is relevant to finding a fitting out place ... how?

Last time I looked the regs don't list places.

 

Having given near proof in your prolusion topic that however experienced you may be on seagoing stuff you have little practical experience of the inland and more specifically the canal world you now give what looks like a rather abrupt, if not rude reply to someone who is only trying to ensure you don't make similar mistakes to so many that have gone before you on here. The number who are going to self build and don't even seem to knwo about the BSS, let alone the RCR is striking.

 

No Alan did not answer you direct question but he did try to give a bit of advice that by past experience you may have overlooked or simply not been aware of. A simple "thanks, I did realise that and have it covered" would have done the trick. Your reply is not going to encourage anyone to answer any other of your questions that may pop up in the future.

 

Personally, I very much doubt your "with benefits" requirement will be met unless you rent a building and install your own equipment. Insurance requirements plus the HSE is likely to scupper any hope you have of using the facilities of whoever you rent the  fitting out space from.  I am very tempted to answer "on your bike" so you can do an on the spot search of the area you are interested in. That is the way peopel often find moorings in popular places so I don't see this is different.

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1 minute ago, David HK said:

@Alan de Enfield Now your unipressed that I have no idea what your on about regarding fitting out? NOTE: fitting out NOT building a shell.

 

Maybe you don't think that the fitting out requirements are also covered in the regs ?

 

Just trying to help, but I'll leave you too it.

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1 minute ago, David HK said:

@Alan de Enfield Now your unipressed that I have no idea what your on about regarding fitting out? NOTE: fitting out NOT building a shell.

 

Are you sure? I bet the MCA have regs in resect of the electrical, gas and fuel systems. Also means of exit and so on. You also will have to take account of their requirements for life-saving equipment. However no idea where Alan got the idea you are doing a commercial fit out.

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4 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Alan got the idea you are doing a commercial fit out.

 

In another thread he asks about (well tells us about) catering for 20 people on his new boat(s)

And also many other statements on a similar vein.

 

Need four toilets "for our clients"

 

 

 

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Maybe you don't think that the fitting out requirements are also covered in the regs ?

 

Just trying to help, but I'll leave you too it.

I AM THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WORLD FFS. I HAVE NO EXPERIENCE OF THE AREA. I AM TRYING TO ASK A SIMPLE QUESTION NOT HAVE PEOPLE TRY AND JUDGE ME. 

ENOUGH ALREADY. 

 

 

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Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

 

In another thread he asks about catering for 20 people on his boat(s)

 

Ta, I was sure you had read it in another post. I bet the MCA will have something to say about securing tea urns and such like.

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3 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Are you sure? I bet the MCA have regs in resect of the electrical, gas and fuel systems. Also means of exit and so on. You also will have to take account of their requirements for life-saving equipment. However no idea where Alan got the idea you are doing a commercial fit out.

 WTF HAS THAT GOT TO DO WITH A HARD STANDING ? Oh nothing. I rest my case.

On the facts we have posted before , you don't think we have the basic gumption to understand the regs and consult before we commit?  Maybe you do, not me.

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6 minutes ago, David HK said:

 WTF HAS THAT GOT TO DO WITH A HARD STANDING ? Oh nothing. I rest my case.

On the facts we have posted before , you don't think we have the basic gumption to understand the regs and consult before we commit?  Maybe you do, not me.

 

On the basis of your propulsion topic I would suggest that there is an excellent chance that you have no idea about the UK regs and what they entail, especially in view of your "I AM THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WORLD FFS".

 

From what I can gather the MCA regs are likely to be on top of or contain the Craft Directive ones so are very likely to add extra expense so the sooner you find out about it the sooner you will know if your plans are financially viable.

Edited by Tony Brooks
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1 minute ago, Tony Brooks said:

From what I can gather the MCA regs are likely to be on top of or contain the Craft Directive ones so are very likely to add extra expense

 

The RCR (Recreational Craft Directive) requirements are quite simple to achieve as it is only your own life you are putting at risk, once you start taking payment then the whole world of commercial requirements kick in, these are way more onerous and demanding than the RCD

Once to get to 12 people on board it opens up a whole new raft of requirements.

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FYI - Because you think you know me, therefore you think you can treat me like a moron, I shall say this, then just ignore you and your unhelpfull tone.

I have been a qualified mechanical marine engineer for over 50 years. From scrubbing engine room plates to, being IC of a carrier propulsion unit, to being a charge engineer of my own department, managing refit projects in the millions and projects in underground facilities. I am a qualified submariner, Bisley marksman and Judo 1st Dan Black Belt, which like the answers you gave has zero relevace to the subject in hand. 

 

I have the abilty to understand English because being native born, living in a foreign land, I teach it now in my twilight years and have professional quals so to do as well as writing a book on the subject. I also understand rules, regs and laws through my experiences before. In the service I co chaired meetings with PSA and Dockyards on ship issues and civil engineering issues. I am not an electrical expert but that means I have a cadre of people whom I worked with before that actually designed the systems on the RNs new carriers and air defence ships. Narrowboat tech is Lego to them.

 

However,

Rule one: In any project, ask the knowledge base for their views. Even though your mates are more knowledgable on stuff in general.

Rule two: Study the problem because loacal time served experts will always throw you a curve ball.

Rule three: Suffer no fools.

 

In regard of rule one. I do not know the Liverpool area but it is highly possible we will build our boats there AND ........... because the local builders are inland on estates and have their own fit out operations, it is highly unlikely they would be forthcoming in the sort of info we need.

 

THAT IS THE EXTENT OF MY ENQUIRY, SO BE NICE AND NOT PEDANTS.

18 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Once to get to 12 people on board it opens up a whole new raft of requirements.

Read the regs. OVER 12 passengers. NOT how you describe. Does not include crew.

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22 minutes ago, David HK said:

Read the regs. OVER 12 passengers. NOT how you describe. Does not include crew.

 

To use your language. FFS "over 12 PASSENGERS" implicitly means it does not include crew and with 20 people aboard an inland boat that means you are planning a crew of eight. So driver, deckhand who can double as pot boy, cook, two servers cum bar staff. This suggests you are either planning for more than 12 passengers or you may be overstaffing with the attendant financial implications.

 

No skin off my nose if you foul up, especially when you are happy to brand those who do not  go along with what still look like pipe dreams as fools.

 

If you are not willing to accept replies that try to help but do not suit you then maybe its best not to ask in the first place. On forums topics usually wander off topic so you need to accept that if you want to pick the members brains, not put their backs up by the tone of your replies.

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I would say that the chances of finding canalside hardstanding with machining/woodworking facilities you can use are close to zero, whether in Liverpool or anywhere else.

Why would anyone who has such facilities be willing to let you use them? The H&S implications of letting joe public use your machinery mean it ain't going to happen.

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FWIW I think you are a very rude man @David HK. Tony and Alan should be thanked for taking the time to respond to your enquiry and not spoken to like that. ?

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6 minutes ago, MrsM said:

FWIW I think you are a very rude man @David HK. Tony and Alan should be thanked for taking the time to respond to your enquiry and not spoken to like that. ?

 

Thank you for that, but it is a very regular occurrence when answers given are not what the questioner wants to hear. I now almost expect that to be the outcome so if I can't take it it would be best not to reply but then until the event you don't know who is going to be like that. I think it is a result of the ever-growing entitlement mentality. From memory when I joined the forum in 2006 there were certainly some ding-dongs but it was usually about technical content and not that common. Basically, people were trying to help each other. Nowadays, a new member comes on, asks an ill-defined question, gets asked for more information or clarification and decline to answer or gets an answer they don't want and then they start getting rude. I suspect it may be caused by younger and more selfish people using boating as cheap housing, so the age profile of members has altered.

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Bluepoint marine is the only real "boatyard" in the city itself and they have hardstanding available. They will no doubt be at the pricier end but the facilities and expertise there are very good. It's accessible from the network via the Liverpool link - their lift is situated in Brunswick Dock.

 

Scarisbrick marina is probably the next closest. (Narrowboat slipway and hardstanding)

 

Although a bit further south Hesford Marine on the Bridgewater is a dedicated DIY yard, set up for longer-term hardstanding users. This might be of interest particularly if you're looking to be out of the water for several months or more.

 

It's worth saying that I've never known of any boatyard on the canal system that would let you use their machining/woodworking facilities. Generally the arrangement is you provide all your own tools and if you're lucky they might let you use the power supply. A number of deaths and accidents in recent years in DIY boatyards has really clamped down on what they are willing/insured to provide.

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21 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

suspect it may be caused by younger and more selfish people using boating as cheap housing, so the age profile of members has altered.

It's a common assumption Tony but I'm 29 and have been using the internet since I was 7 years old. I too remember the days when forums (and the internet in general) were much more civilised and wish it was still like that. It used to feel like much more of a community. I don't think age has as much to do with it as experience and speed of adoption. I see just as many older people who are new to the internet get wrapped up in pointless bickering because they don't understand the etiquette.

 

I think like a lot of things, once it starts to get mass appeal any sense of community standards go out the window and it becomes a free for all.

 

P.S. I am almost 30 so I'm not sure if I qualify as a younger person anymore ?

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5 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

In another thread he asks about (well tells us about) catering for 20 people on his new boat(s)

And also many other statements on a similar vein.

 

Need four toilets "for our clients"

 

 

 

I tried to give advice in that thread and following the reply I received decided to leave the OP to it in future

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