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Testing a stop solenoid


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The stop button on my narrowboat stopped working last weekend. My narrow boat has a Barrus Shire engine and a stop solenoid that is very similar to this one https://www.amazon.co.uk/Holdwell-Solenoid-1510SP-12ETS-SA-4786-12-Yanmar/dp/B07BBFXS4Y

 

Unfortunately, whilst investigating the issue I think I may have dropped the stop button into the marina waters. (I disconnected and put it down, but later lost it. It was nowhere to be seen - even in the bilges.) The button worked before it went into the drink, so this wasn't the cause of the problem, so the issue must be caused by either the solenoid or the wiring between the button and the solenoid. (I can stop the engine using the manual button on the solenoid.) I was wondering if I could test the solenoid by stretching it across the terminals of a battery, but I'm not sure which of the leads is negative and which is positive. (Both are black, although one has white writing on it and, unlike the one in the link, both have separate tabs.) If I test it by stretching it across a battery will it be damaged if I were to get the polarity wrong, does anyone know? Aany help will be appreciated.

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A solenoid is just a large coil and so should not care about polarity, though internally it may actually have two coils and a switch if it has separate energise and hold coils. However do not hold a wire in each hand and apply to the battery terminals (as you might do to test a 12v bulb) - if the solenoid design has a large number of thin windings, when you disconnect  you may get a large voltage "Back EMF" generated by the returning solenoid plunger and its going through your hands ! 

 

DAMHIK

 

springy

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3 minutes ago, springy said:

However do not hold a wire in each hand and apply to the battery terminals (as you might do to test a 12v bulb) - if the solenoid design has a large number of thin windings, when you disconnect  you may get a large voltage "Back EMF" generated by the returning solenoid plunger and its going through your hands !

Thanks, for the warning. That's a really good point. I didn't think of that.

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I’ve seen this before, it’s not the wire from the start button. From what I remember there is a inline blade fuse coming from and near the starter motor (40amp ???) to the male stop solenoid plug connection and a similar fuse from the starter solenoid (15amp??) to the stop/ignition wiring plug, check these before anything else, as they often corrode causing the solenoid  to not get enough voltage to stop the engine, they often look ok but need a good clean to get a good connection. As I say I’m trying to remember the process how I eliminated things. I’m sure when I used the volt meter and tested the voltage to the start switch it was ok, it wasn’t till I tested it at the Solenoid once the button was pressed that it dropped. It was still showing voltage but not enough to activate the stop Solenoid. These are not cheap so find the blade fuses and clean or replace first.
What Barrus shire is it as I have a few wiring diagrams if you need.

Edited by PD1964
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On 21/05/2021 at 16:14, Eeyore said:

Do you have a “slave” relay for the stop solenoid? Often found in the wiring partway between the engine and control panel on earlier Barrus engines.

I don't know. I struggled to follow the wiring from the stop button to the solenoid. I'll have another go.

22 hours ago, PD1964 said:

I’ve seen this before, it’s not the wire from the start button. From what I remember there is a inline blade fuse coming from and near the starter motor (40amp ???) to the male stop solenoid plug connection and a similar fuse from the starter solenoid (15amp??) to the stop/ignition wiring plug, check these before anything else, as they often corrode causing the solenoid  to not get enough voltage to stop the engine, they often look ok but need a good clean to get a good connection. As I say I’m trying to remember the process how I eliminated things. I’m sure when I used the volt meter and tested the voltage to the start switch it was ok, it wasn’t till I tested it at the Solenoid once the button was pressed that it dropped. It was still showing voltage but not enough to activate the stop Solenoid. These are not cheap so find the blade fuses and clean or replace first.
What Barrus shire is it as I have a few wiring diagrams if you need.

Thanks, PD1964. They could be really helpful. It's a Barrus Shire 2002E

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1 hour ago, Rick P said:

Thanks They could be really helpful. It's a Barrus Shire 2002E

Good, it’s the same engine. I’ve just popped over and took the photo below. Have a at the 9 0’clock position below the “S” and you see 2x black blade fuse holders, you may have similar around that area(starter motor) these need to be checked and cleaned, these were the cause of the same problem on my friends boat. Try before you buy a solenoid as they are not cheap. 3999CAF7-361D-490C-BDA4-31B1D9ACE236.jpeg.d82cc974155d8499a6329422de0a9b1d.jpeg

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If the engine runs without the solenoid connected then the solenoid either stops the flow of fuel or pushes the pump control to the off position. If the engine doesn't run without the solenoid activated then the solenoid needs to be energised all the time. There are only two or three components in the circuit.

The stop button (either normally open or normally closed), a relay and the solenoid.

To test the solenoid disconnect the two black wires from the solenoid on the fuel pump fuel pump. Connect them to a 12v supply, You should be able to hear the solenoid click when power is applied and if the engine is running it should stop. Check for open and short circuit between the wires to the solenoid with a multi meter - you should have a few ohms resistance between the two and high resistance to the casing. Check the voltage across the two wires going to the solenoid both without the solenoid connected and then with it connected. You should have full battery voltage in the first case and a couple of volts less when connected. If this is all fine go back to the two switch connections, with the ignition on you would expect 12v with the switch open and 0v when closed.

After that you are looking for a relay(possibly) or a fuse blown or a break in the wiring.

Hope this helps

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41 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

Good, it’s the same engine. I’ve just popped over and took the photo below. Have a at the 9 0’clock position below the “S” and you see 2x black blade fuse holders, you may have similar around that area(starter motor) these need to be checked and cleaned, these were the cause of the same problem on my friends boat. Try before you buy a solenoid as they are not cheap. 3999CAF7-361D-490C-BDA4-31B1D9ACE236.jpeg.d82cc974155d8499a6329422de0a9b1d.jpeg

Do you have a relay in the wiring between the engine and control panel? A picture would be useful if you do. It just hangs off the side of the loom, maybe a foot or two from the engine if memory serves.

 

 

Edited by Eeyore
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41 minutes ago, Eeyore said:

Do you have a relay in the wiring between the engine and control panel? A picture would be useful if you do. It just hangs off the side of the loom, maybe a foot or two from the engine if memory serves.

 

 

This is not my post(fault) but yes there was a relay like the one below in the loom, I tested everything and replaced everything with new(stop solenoid, stop button, in-line relay) to make sure, everything that is related to stopping the engine and all with the same result, engine still wouldn’t stop on the button and all it was, was the corroded blade fuse from the starter motor, it has happened since and always rectified by cleaning the blade fuse. I would recommend the OP starts with the blade fuses as these corrode. What I remember a genuine Barrus stop solenoid was about £300, far more expensive then a 25p blade fuse.

7A1330A9-5362-40F4-A088-ADDE020801D1.jpeg.3d59ad516f45256225e60590c062a33a.jpeg

Edited by PD1964
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