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Recommendations/advice needed: get yale locks fitted?


A Mad Belgian

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Hi! I'm buying a narrowboat, and I want to improve the security on it somewhat, i.e. replace the padlock system with a "proper" key system, as I will be living aboard and don't want to make it too clear to people when I'm not around (the main problem with padlocks).

 

Can any locksmith do the job or do I need a specialist narrowboat person? Are Yale locks a good option, or do you have any better recommendation? Finally, do you have any names to recommend? I'll be travelling from Manchester to London so anywhere along that route would be fine ?

 

Thanks !!

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Do you have windows?

 

 

 

 

If so the scrotes will simply kick one in and ignore your locks, bolts and alarms.

 

I was taught how to pick Yale type locks by a locksmith, he could open them before you had the key out of your pocket.

5 lever mortice locks are best but tricky to engineer into boat doors.

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Wood or steel doors, if steel you may need a bit of fabrication. I fitted Deadlocks on steel doors and had a small box  welded on the inside to house the body of the lock and drilled a key hole from the outside. https://www.locksonline.co.uk/Dead-Locks/British-Standard-BS8621-Dead-Locks.html 

In the wooden doors I have a Yale which basically screws on with a hole for the key https://www.screwfix.com/p/yale-77-traditional-night-latch-polished-chrome-plated-60mm-backset/78737. I removed the button after getting locked out  A boat fitter should be able to do that for you.

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  • 4 months later...
On 17/05/2021 at 16:22, Tracy D'arth said:

Do you have windows?

If so the scrotes will simply kick one in and ignore your locks, bolts and alarms.

Well now I'm concerned. I guess this is hyperbole, but does that kind of thing happen often?

And a second question would be how would one go about preventing this? I imagine unbreakable glass would be quite the expense.

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5 hours ago, SirCy said:

Well now I'm concerned. I guess this is hyperbole, but does that kind of thing happen often?

And a second question would be how would one go about preventing this? I imagine unbreakable glass would be quite the expense.

 

Hardly hyperbole, and the bargepole on the roof of many boats makes an excellent tool for putting in a window if the glass is too strong for a scote's boot. 

 

It rarely happens though out and about on the canal system. It's just that you started it with your mild paranoia about being broken into! London may well be a different kettle of fish though. Living on a boat in London seems to bear little resemblance to the nomadic lifestyle of proper CCing.

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6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Maybe as the OP hasn't visited the forum for the last 3 months, she solved the problem, or, no longer has a boat, or London has 'done for her'.

 

Except that the thread had been woken up by a new post, made in the small hours of this morning! 

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I have no idea what the fear of London is, guessing it's because people have never tried it or even been there? I've cc'd starting on the upper Thames, then up to Leighton Buzzard and slowly back round again, been in London for a couple of months now on my way to the upper Lea out of London.

 

In central London, the community is probably more social than anywhere else I've found, and people are very willing to share help/tools/expertise and say hello. I've double moored a fair bit and made friends doing so, swapped fuses for cheese with neighbours and a guy built a roof box for me after I fixed his electrics and pumped the bilge out. If you get stuck for coal or kindling, a quick post on the Facebook group will often sort you out if your neighbours can't.

 

There's a couple of areas which are known for being crime hotspots but apart from that it's pretty safe. Beats dealing with grumpy folk out in the country for sure...no one's got angry at me for running the generator to do my washing at 2pm on a weekday...

 

Anyway, the Enfield type of garage door locks are good as they deadbolt and as the bolt is round, the hole in the frame is easier to cut than a square/rectangle hole for a mortice lock. Downside is the keys are long and difficult to pocket.
https://www.lockshop-warehouse.co.uk/acatalog/d613-enfield-garage-door-bolts.html

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7 hours ago, cheesegas said:

..........

Anyway, the Enfield type of garage door locks are good as they deadbolt and as the bolt is round, the hole in the frame is easier to cut than a square/rectangle hole for a mortice lock. Downside is the keys are long and difficult to pocket.

What he said.

 

If you have double doors and intend to fit yale locks in the middle of them then I would suggest you rethink as it takes precisely 0.721 seconds to open  the doors when supposedly locked. 

Deadbolts top and bottom  are the only way I found to give a securely locked door.

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11 hours ago, MtB said:

Except that the thread had been woken up by a new post, made in the small hours of this morning! 

Aye my bad, should've read when the last post was on this one rather than the topic title.

But hey it got people talking about boat security at least.

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Cabin windows are almost never kicked in by thieves. Who wants to enter through broken glass? I've heard the odd story about vandals chucking a brick through a window while the owners were onboard but that's completely different. Bow door windows are vulnerable if the door can be unlocked from the inside, especially if they can do it while hidden under a cratch cover.

 

The one area that's most often neglected is deckboard security on cruiser sterns and semi trads. I've met people who've had batteries nicked and I even met someone who had his engine and gearbox nicked! I saw the boat immediately afterwards. That's a rarity and it was probably done by "fellow boaters" because the boat was moored about a mile from the nearest road.

Edited by blackrose
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We use Asec garage bolts on all doors and side hatches - positioned so that the 2-inch bolt slips in behind the steel frames. Star key, stainless escutcheons for exterior operation (otherwise just interior opening, as on hatches), have lasted 12 years now without complaint.

 

Like these: 

https://www.locktrader.co.uk/Asec-Garage-Door-Bolts-Pair.html

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On 19/10/2021 at 15:41, Jim Batty said:

We use Asec garage bolts on all doors and side hatches - positioned so that the 2-inch bolt slips in behind the steel frames. Star key, stainless escutcheons for exterior operation (otherwise just interior opening, as on hatches), have lasted 12 years now without complaint.

 

Like these: 

https://www.locktrader.co.uk/Asec-Garage-Door-Bolts-Pair.html

 

When these bolts are extended in the locked position, can you manually push the bolt back in, or is it locked in position? Thanks.

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2 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Also openable by inserting a screwdriver, these appear to me to offer hardly any higher security than no lock at all. 

 

 

 

I thought that as well, but the locks linked to have a cruciform key not the bog standard star key.

 

AS1999.jpg

 

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Also openable by inserting a screwdriver, these appear to me to offer hardly any higher security than no lock at all. 

 

 

Take a closer look at the key - it's not a simple rack and pinion in there, with a universal key. The keys go into a four sided barrel with one set of tumblers and pins, so just like a normal Yale lock, using a screwdriver to turn the barrel doesn't work because the pins are in the shear line. There's a few million key differs with this design too.

 

The mechanism also deadlocks the bolt so it can't simply be pushed back in. I have them on my front door and can confirm that just like a regular lock, turning the barrel with a screwdriver does sweet nothing.

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15 minutes ago, cheesegas said:

Take a closer look at the key - it's not a simple rack and pinion in there, with a universal key. The keys go into a four sided barrel with one set of tumblers and pins, so just like a normal Yale lock, using a screwdriver to turn the barrel doesn't work because the pins are in the shear line. There's a few million key differs with this design too.

 

The mechanism also deadlocks the bolt so it can't simply be pushed back in. I have them on my front door and can confirm that just like a regular lock, turning the barrel with a screwdriver does sweet nothing.

 

Well that's encouraging, so not a "star key" after all. 

 

 

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11 hours ago, Cas446 said:

 

When these bolts are extended in the locked position, can you manually push the bolt back in, or is it locked in position? Thanks.

 

No, there's no spring action. When they're extended ... they're extended. And they're pretty solid.

 

The keys look like this. (They look like 'stars' to me ... but what do I know.)

 

 

spacer.png

 

 

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32 minutes ago, Jim Batty said:

The keys look like this. (They look like 'stars' to me ... but what do I know.)

 

That's a cruciform key, and they are much higher security than a star key like this:

 

31uricRPwcL._AC_SY1000_.jpg

 

They can be opened with a screwdriver as @MtB said.

 

The star key (or rack bolt key) is only much cop for single sided locks.  They used to be quite common as an extra lock inside double glazing.  Useless on the outside.

 

 

Edited by TheBiscuits
Grammar
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On 12/10/2021 at 20:37, blackrose said:

Cabin windows are almost never kicked in by thieves. Who wants to enter through broken glass?

We've had that, but it is extremely rare, as you say. Ours was on the Seine opposite the Eiffel Tower which you'd think was a busy enough place, but the police told us they worked as a team. They'd see someone go out in the evening and someone would follow. Once they saw you go into a bar or restaurant they'd know you'd be some time and they'd phone back to give the all-clear. The window was very small so the person that got through obviously was too, but the water level meant it was just below the level of the quay and not easily visible to people on the bank. They tried to get some paintings off the wall - they were good paintings but it did seem a bit odd for selling on - but all they had in the end was a camera and video recorder. They simply walked out through the front door. The camera stuff was cheaper and easier to replace than the window. Still, that's Paris for you.

 

Tam

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