Is fibreglass that old going to be a write-off in a couple of years? - Buying a Wilds Caribbean 39...

[Wandering Lark]

Hi

I'm hoping someone might have some experience of older fiberglass boats and might not mind advising me.

I'm looking at buying a wilds Caribean 39  from 1969 as a live aboard - it will be my first boat :)

Its in need of some TLC, and I'm very up for giving that.

My one concern is the fiberglass in the hull and deck and if its going to become a catastrophic problem fairly soon.

Obviously its 50 years old and some wear is inevitable. I've seen a recent survey and there is blistering below the waterline indicative of osmosis and the deck is a little soft, which the surveyor identifies as a problem with the core material. In its favour I think the fiberglass in these boats was originally over-specced as the material wasn't well understood.

I've read that osmosis and blistering might not really be a problem, though eventually leads to delmaniation which is a problem

I have a few questions

- Does anyone have experience of gel coating - professionally or DIY - the surveyor recomended that with in the next "couple of years" - does anyone know roughly how much that might cost? Is it neccessary for the boat to be out of the water for months to dry?

- Is the fiberglass at that age reaching the end of its life - would it be worth spending time on the repairs or will new problems keep cropping up

Any help or advice arround this would be really apreciated.

thanks

Oliver

 

[Tony Brooks]

I suspect it will probably outlast many more modern GRP boats as long as it shows no signs of delamination or significant hull damage. Laid up like the proverbial brick built wotsit except for paper rope in the engine beds but that was not so bad because they were designed for hydraulic drive that put not torque or thrust on the  engine mountings.

 

Rather than gel coat the blistering bits i think I would grind up and build up a bit with Epoxy paint. I would think that you would need to allow any part of the hull where water has got between the laminations to dry out, otherwise you would be sealing it in.

 

It all depends upon the price you can get it for really.

Edited May 15, 2021 by Tony Brooks

[Wandering Lark]

Thanks Tony.

The surveyor mentions that the blisters appear to reach the structural matrix, as when they scrapped them fibre bundles came out and the spike could be pushed into the stucture. the blisters were 10-12 cm. does that sound like bad news or just something that is bound to happen and not so much of a big deal?

Thanks

Oliver

[Alan de Enfield]

22 minutes ago, Wandering Lark said:

Thanks Tony.

The surveyor mentions that the blisters appear to reach the structural matrix, as when they scrapped them fibre bundles came out and the spike could be pushed into the stucture. the blisters were 10-12 cm. does that sound like bad news or just something that is bound to happen and not so much of a big deal?

Thanks

Oliver

 

Before getting your wallet out and deciding to 'just paint over it', it may be worth considering (asking) what the insurance company will demand.

 

With a boat over 30 years old, you will definately only get fully comp insurance (which ideally as a live aboard you'll want) with a 'good' survey from a surveyor. Any question about structural integrity would, I'd suggest make the insurers refuse to give cover.

 

More investigation needed.

[Wandering Lark]

Thanks,

Thats great advice - I know the current owners have insurance but I expect they have held the policy since before the survey was taken out.

Oliver

[GUMPY]

8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

With a boat over 30 years old, you will definately only get fully comp insurance (which ideally as a live aboard you'll want) with a 'good' survey from a surveyor. Any question about structural integrity would, I'd suggest make the insurers refuse to give cover.

Not always true with fibreglass boats, GJW allow self certification below a certain value, £10k I think, our Freeman, our Snapdragon and our Norman all well over 30 years none of which required a survey to get fully comp insurance.

 

Edited May 15, 2021 by Loddon

[Tony Brooks]

Do you mean 10 - 12 cm diameter or the spike went in 10 to 12mm? I assume that is the diameter so much depends upon how far the spike went in (how deep the damage is) and how far apart the damaged areas are. They are inland boats so the need for structural strength is less than for a sea boat so if the damage is (say) 4mm deep and widely spread across the hull then I am sure digging out the loose glass, trying to inject resin around the area and fliling with epoxy filler and painting would do the job for an amateur.

[Bee]

I wonder if this has been an ex hire boat? look for damage around the fore end, all around the rubbing strakes, all along the top edge of the hull where it meets the side decks and around the corners of the transom, the bit where the sides meet the flat bit of the stern. Confession time, we hired an awful caribbean type boat on the Thames 30 years ago, it was really battered but cheap ish. Descending a lock the top edge of the deck moulding caught on the lock side and broke a lump off and damaged the much repaired rubber guard. There was no way I was going to lose a deposit on such an battered boat so found a Halfords, got some plastic padding and self tappers, got some paint match pots from a Do It All store and made a brilliant repair that was better than the original. Only thing was that the paint was emulsion paint.....  

[Tony Brooks]

41 minutes ago, Bee said:

I wonder if this has been an ex hire boat? look for damage around the fore end, all around the rubbing strakes, all along the top edge of the hull where it meets the side decks and around the corners of the transom, the bit where the sides meet the flat bit of the stern. Confession time, we hired an awful caribbean type boat on the Thames 30 years ago, it was really battered but cheap ish. Descending a lock the top edge of the deck moulding caught on the lock side and broke a lump off and damaged the much repaired rubber guard. There was no way I was going to lose a deposit on such an battered boat so found a Halfords, got some plastic padding and self tappers, got some paint match pots from a Do It All store and made a brilliant repair that was better than the original. Only thing was that the paint was emulsion paint.....  

 

Funnily enough we found that the boats with an almost right angle between hull side and transom suffered far more extensive damage that the Caribbeans did with the rounded corners. It was almost certainly a hire boat, few seemed to go straight into private ownership.

 

A bit off topic but those corners on the Seacrete hulls Maid Line had were interesting. It was not that unusual to see a maid Line employee out with a bucket full of sand and cement "plastering" over the missing corner onto the exposed steel reinforcing bars.

[AllanD]

I also hired, on the Thames, what looked like an ex-hire boat from the Broads in 1987. It did have however been modified and now had an additional upper steering position. It handled really well when using this feature. 

It did however leak like a sieve through the decking from the amount of screw holes that had been replaced over the years. 

Who also remembers the gas fired catalytic heating in the saloon and bedrooms? 

Edited May 16, 2021 by AllanD

[Phoenix_V]

Whatever work is done I suggest the hull is given several months out of water to dry properly

[Mad Harold]

7 hours ago, Phoenix_V said:

Whatever work is done I suggest the hull is given several months out of water to dry properly

Probably better to let the hull dry before doing the remedial work.

[Sea Dog]

23 hours ago, Wandering Lark said:

I've seen a recent survey and there is blistering below the waterline indicative of osmosis ...

 

Osmosis isn't water getting in, it's volatiles from the laying up process trapped beneath the gel coat finding their way out. If you disturb a blister, you will find it smells vinegary which salt and fresh water don't.  Delamination with water in the voids is a different animal. Nevertheless, I've seen yachts stripped of their gel coat being heated to dry out osmosis before reskinning the hull, so you will be able to find someone who will sell you that "solution". It often said by those who better understand the much musunderstood subject that boats don't sink from osmosis: this has worked for 50 years so far on your boat. It's a scary subject and many buyers will run from it, so it can be a good bargaining chip for those more relaxed about the risk. I'd recommend Nigel Clegg, somewhat of an expert in the subject, should you wish to read up.

[gatekrash]

3 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

 It often said by those who better understand the much musunderstood subject that boats don't sink from osmosis: this has worked for 50 years so far on your boat. It's a scary subject and many buyers will run from it, so it can be a good bargaining chip for those more relaxed about the risk. I'd recommend Nigel Clegg, somewhat of an expert in the subject, should you wish to read up.

My lumpy water boat had osmosis when I bought her back in 1991, and it's a topic that most plastic boat owning yachties like me do a lot of reading about!

At my boat's 25 year old survey, which was 17 years ago, the surveyor remarked on the osmosis and told me to forget it, chuck it back in the water and continue to enjoy the boat, but if I was thinking of selling then to get it done. The insurance company was similarly not worried about it. Pretty much every boat that's been next to me in the yard over the last few years has had some evidence of it, including most of the boats that have been treated for it in the 90s when all the scare stories about how bad it was we're doing the rounds.

 

Leaving the boat out of the water without opening the blisters won't dry it very much, they will shrink very slightly but will come back once the boat is put back in the water. My boat was dry sailed for 12 years, only being put in the water for one day a week during the summer when we were racing then coming straight back onto the yard again, and the osmosis never dried out at all in all that time.

 

Unless they're particularly deep blisters I wouldn't be massively concerned but I would be looking to get the boat cheaply!

 

In terms of long term treatment the accepted solution is to gently peel the gel off with a gel peeler followed by a light grit blast, full hull washing then leaving to dry for several months preferably with good air circulation. Then filling and fairing followed by several coats of 2 pack epoxy.

 

Or you could follow the advice if my surveyor...chuck it back in and enjoy it...

[TheBiscuits]

Tony Tugboats reckons you should just grind them out and re-fibreglass the affected area and a generous amount around them if you are intending to do anything at all.

 

Only blisters big enough to scare surveyors need this treatment ...