Chris Lowe Posted May 14, 2021 Report Share Posted May 14, 2021 Was the river swale ever navigable? This is near Topcliffe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty40s Posted May 14, 2021 Report Share Posted May 14, 2021 (edited) Yes, and there is still a bit of the lock left at Topcliffe. Fascinating story here from page 131 of Topcliffes Millennium history book. https://s.amsu.ng/ZmxNQpmxXsfN Edited May 14, 2021 by matty40s 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 14, 2021 Report Share Posted May 14, 2021 Didnt @Pluto recently post a pic. of this lock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pluto Posted May 14, 2021 Report Share Posted May 14, 2021 This is Leeming Lock in 2018, with the old A1 bridge in the background. The chamber wall on the left has been cut down as part of the water system for an old water mill which still survives and is located behind the photographer. Now being converted to a house, there are still a number of fixtures to be seen in the mill. The basin at Bedale still survives as well, and there are a few difficult to find survivors on Cod Beck, in Thirsk. There is a surprising amount for what was, in effect, an unfinished navigation which was only used for a few years. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewIC Posted May 14, 2021 Report Share Posted May 14, 2021 4 hours ago, Pluto said: This is Leeming Lock in 2018, with the old A1 bridge in the background. The chamber wall on the left has been cut down as part of the water system for an old water mill which still survives and is located behind the photographer. Now being converted to a house, there are still a number of fixtures to be seen in the mill. The basin at Bedale still survives as well, and there are a few difficult to find survivors on Cod Beck, in Thirsk. There is a surprising amount for what was, in effect, an unfinished navigation which was only used for a few years. Thank you for that pic, I often wondered if anything survived, but this is the lock near Leeming Bar on the Beadle Beck, not Topcliffe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Lowe Posted May 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2021 Lidar image of the Bedale harbour. Lidar image of Leeming lock Lidar image of the locks at Topcliffe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Carter Posted May 14, 2021 Report Share Posted May 14, 2021 29 minutes ago, buccaneer66 said: Lidar image of the locks at Topcliffe I knew about Leeming Lock, but not about these ... and that's Cod Beck almost breaking through into the Swale - did they really think they were going to get keels up Cod Beck to Thirsk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty40s Posted May 15, 2021 Report Share Posted May 15, 2021 12 hours ago, Richard Carter said: I knew about Leeming Lock, but not about these ... and that's Cod Beck almost breaking through into the Swale - did they really think they were going to get keels up Cod Beck to Thirsk? No, Topcliffe Lock just raised the boat into the raised upper level(the wier had an additional shelf then) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty40s Posted May 15, 2021 Report Share Posted May 15, 2021 12 minutes ago, matty40s said: No, Topcliffe Lock just raised the boat into the raised upper level(the wier had an additional shelf then) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Carter Posted May 15, 2021 Report Share Posted May 15, 2021 (edited) 26 minutes ago, matty40s said: No, Topcliffe Lock just raised the boat into the raised upper level(the wier had an additional shelf then) So does that mean that working lock(s) were actually built at Topcliffe? I'd got the impression it didn't get that far. I guess that would have helped boats to get further up the Swale towards Bedale Beck, but four other locks were also planned, plus a second one on Bedale Beck, and there seems no trace of them, so navigation will not have been easy. Wikipedia quotes The river is said to be the fastest flowing in England and its levels have been known to rise 10 feet (3 m) in 20 minutes so perhaps no surprise if it was too great a challenge to create a navigation in the 1760s Given how obscure this is nowadays I find it remarkable that 75 years later, when the OS map makers came along, those Topcliffe earthworks were still associated with locks and river improvement. There were navigation works started in Thirsk as well, the same OS 6 in maps show a "Lock Bridge" so Cod Beck must have been under serious consideration for a while. Edited May 15, 2021 by Richard Carter @matty40s crossed with your latest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Carter Posted May 15, 2021 Report Share Posted May 15, 2021 10 minutes ago, matty40s said: But is this Topcliffe? I've not yet seen a map which marks a weir here, or this farmhouse, or any water in the lock cut ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Carter Posted May 15, 2021 Report Share Posted May 15, 2021 (edited) OK, yes Topcliffe, but not the locks below Topcliffe as shown in the first post of this thread, but here, just above the village, with the weir, the mill, and the roadway by the river: Remarkable that there is evidence of a lock cut on the modern satellite image but not on this map! Edited May 15, 2021 by Richard Carter added last comment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pluto Posted May 15, 2021 Report Share Posted May 15, 2021 A P Voce was researching the navigation before he died, and I have passed on his notes to the Northallerton Record Office. (I have digital copies of their holdings, Cod Beck and Swale Navigation ZAG/279) I did copy all his photos, and have the uncompleted text for his book. The photo below was taken in 1964. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Carter Posted May 15, 2021 Report Share Posted May 15, 2021 16 minutes ago, Pluto said: A P Voce was researching the navigation before he died, and I have passed on his notes to the Northallerton Record Office. (I have digital copies of their holdings, Cod Beck and Swale Navigation ZAG/279) I did copy all his photos, and have the uncompleted text for his book. The photo below was taken in 1964. So there were works actually carried out - but was this for navigation or to protect the bridge against floodwater? I wonder if we shouldn't be saying "Asenby Locks" for the earthworks which started this thread off, to save confusion with the weir upstream of Swale Bridge in Topcliffe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty40s Posted May 15, 2021 Report Share Posted May 15, 2021 Have a read of the linked pdf I posted, if it doesnt work, I will post a different link. Page 131 onwards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Carter Posted May 15, 2021 Report Share Posted May 15, 2021 2 hours ago, matty40s said: Have a read of the linked pdf I posted, if it doesnt work, I will post a different link. Page 131 onwards Thanks for this - my bad, I didn't register the link properly. Link works fine, looking forward to reading it. I grew up in Ripon, this feels like a "home" waterway ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pluto Posted May 15, 2021 Report Share Posted May 15, 2021 Grundy's 1767 report on the Cod Beck. 1767 report.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pluto Posted May 15, 2021 Report Share Posted May 15, 2021 Grundy's report on the Swale, plus a plan of the navigations being discussed in the area at the time. 1767 Grundy on Swale.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Carter Posted May 15, 2021 Report Share Posted May 15, 2021 1 hour ago, Pluto said: Grundy's report on the Swale, plus a plan of the navigations being discussed in the area at the time. That's great, thanks for both of these Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek R. Posted May 15, 2021 Report Share Posted May 15, 2021 Interesting to compare Richard's line map to the modern satellite image. Anchor Dikes - do they relate to 'Old Sike' on the satellite version? https://tinyurl.com/abrw4sa9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Lowe Posted May 15, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2021 The lock location I posted earlier is here on this zoomed out map, it's just near Topcliffe. I wasn't expecting such a good discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Carter Posted May 15, 2021 Report Share Posted May 15, 2021 1 hour ago, Derek R. said: Interesting to compare Richard's line map to the modern satellite image. Anchor Dikes - do they relate to 'Old Sike' on the satellite version? https://tinyurl.com/abrw4sa9 That track leading to the Mill is called Old Sike on the old OS map as well 54 minutes ago, buccaneer66 said: The lock location I posted earlier is here on this zoomed out map, it's just near Topcliffe. I wasn't expecting such a good discussion. I'm really enjoying this too, and learning ... This lock site, downstream from Topcliffe turns out to be known as Leckby Lock (from the info linked by @matty40s upthread) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Lowe Posted May 16, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2021 A couple of interesting newspaper articles. How a lack of cash scuppered an engineering project of the canal age Bedale seeks harbour master 240 years after canal scheme ran aground The first one is what pointed me to look around Topcliffe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Carter Posted May 16, 2021 Report Share Posted May 16, 2021 4 hours ago, buccaneer66 said: A couple of interesting newspaper articles. How a lack of cash scuppered an engineering project of the canal age Bedale seeks harbour master 240 years after canal scheme ran aground The first one is what pointed me to look around Topcliffe. I'm beginning to imagine this as a film - maybe by Michael Winterbottom, along the lines of "A Cock and Bull Story", his 2006 version of Tristram Shandy (from exactly this period) - in which the newly appointed Bedale Harbourmaster tries to get his keel up from York to Bedale, including at Topcliffe passing through "the first Swale Lock which without vanity it may be said if not the very best, yet one of the best and compleatest Locks in England." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pluto Posted May 16, 2021 Report Share Posted May 16, 2021 Looking at the archive material I copied some years ago, there seems to have been a court case about the Earl of Egremont's land flooding, which may have been one reason for the failure of the navigation to survive. The photo shows what is taken to be the wharf in Thirsk, and there is a second 1767 plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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