Explains my electrical system which is like no other

[George and Dragon]

11 hours ago, LadyG said:

I have no reason to think the cable size is an issue, its been there for twenty years. 

 

That cable was there when you had the now removed inverter/charger. If that's the only cable linking the bow battery bank with the stern bank it needs to be at least the same size as the interconnects within the banks at bow and stern, otherwise you will struggle to get the bow bank properly charged due to volt drop along the undersized cables.

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, George and Dragon said:

 

That cable was there when you had the now removed inverter/charger. If that's the only cable linking the bow battery bank with the stern bank it needs to be at least the same size as the interconnects within the banks at bow and stern, otherwise you will struggle to get the bow bank properly charged due to volt drop along the undersized cables.

 

 

There was originally a battery charger there - this battery charger would be powered by the mains, and its output (12v) only needed to go down (maybe) a couple of feet of thin wires to get to the batteries, there would be negligible volt drop.

 

Now the battery charger is removed it appears (it has not been explained, despite asking, where the source of 12v is now coming from, it could be using some redundant thin wiring for the tunnel light or horn) it could be coming via some thin cables that were never designed to carry the  high current of the battery charger, and hence the apparent 2 volt volt drop between stern and bow., 

[Tony Brooks]

11 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

There was originally a battery charger there - this battery charger would be powered by the mains, and its output (12v) only needed to go down (maybe) a couple of feet of thin wires to get to the batteries, there would be negligible volt drop.

 

Now the battery charger is removed it appears (it has not been explained, despite asking, where the source of 12v is now coming from, it could be using some redundant thin wiring for the tunnel light or horn) it could be coming via some thin cables that were never designed to carry the  high current of the battery charger, and hence the apparent 2 volt volt drop between stern and bow., 

 

Not worth trying to help Alan. When I agreed with what you said about the voltmeters she said that she ignores your posts. She obviously thinks she knows better and seems determined not to help get a resolution so we might as well leave her to get on with it.

[Alan de Enfield]

13 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Not worth trying to help Alan. When I agreed with what you said about the voltmeters she said that she ignores your posts. She obviously thinks she knows better and seems determined not to help get a resolution so we might as well leave her to get on with it.

 

 

I know and I agree, it is just so frustrating that something that is so simple to do is just poo-pood as requiring 'ripping out all the wiring', she really is her own worst enemy and despite some of the horrendous things she has said and the unpleasant conversations I have had with her, I still feel extremely sorry for her. Her problems are self inflicted, but if she would accept help, there are experts out there (both for her mental health and for the boat) who will help.

 

You made a vey kind offer that you would drive many miles to 'have a look' at her boat electrics - did you even get a thank you for the offer, no, all you got was its too expensive, too complicated and I'm not doing it.

 

I live about 12 miles from her present location - am I going to go and sort out her electrics - am I buggery !!

She can pay her incompetent electricians £70, and wallow in her own pity.

Edited May 15, 2021 by Alan de Enfield

[Arthur Marshall]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Not worth trying to help Alan. When I agreed with what you said about the voltmeters she said that she ignores your posts. She obviously thinks she knows better and seems determined not to help get a resolution so we might as well leave her to get on with it.

I think she probably has Alan on technical ignore, rather than just dismissing them,   as virtually every post he makes in reply to one of hers contains some derogatory or insulting remarks.  I've noticed he does appear to look out for them specially - there's obviously some personal history there verging on pathology.

[Chagall]

14 hours ago, LadyG said:

See your above abusive post to se why you are on ignore, not constructive. 

Do you suppose I have just posted so eedjits like you can hurl abuse at me,  in fact Chagall pointed me in the right direction, ie the immersion water heater has been on for some indeterminate time, it is now off, and two of the three labels will  be will be changed from heater to immersion, though I won't forget it now. 

Electrician had his head in the wiring box for a couple of hours, worked out what was happening, he's an electrician, if it took him two hours, do you wonder it has taken me two years? 

I managed on my proper boat by using a good electrician to sort the electrics, a good mechanic to service the engine and so on, a good boatyard to lay a mooring, I did not sew my own sails either, I employed a sail maker.

The bow batteries are behind a large cupboard which first has to be emptied, then they are under the well deck, I can't actually reach them easily, just about reach the first one, the second one, I can just about see the wiring. 

The starter battery is on a shelf under the stern deck, I might just be able to reach it, but there is no point it fires up the engine no bother.

The other domestic bank has a cover which is screwed down, covering two batteries with another at arm's length. I don't think you need to know these things, best not to respond to my posts. 

Since I cannot reply on your now locked thread I'll add it here because you may not have realised that the particularly spiteful post that drove you to immediately create that locked thread was amended by that poster.  In my defence I did not endorse the hurtful comments by giving a greeny, that was given for having had the decency to remove his remarks. 

[PD1964]

It was Murflynn this time that she called an idiot not me, I normally get a bit more. I think she has called most members on here something, so when she gets it back not everyone is ganging up on her or the victim she makes out.  it’s just that she has offended so many people. I don’t think she is a pleasant 76 year old even in the real world and she has earned non of my respect.

Edited May 15, 2021 by PD1964

[Murflynn]

On 14/05/2021 at 20:26, LadyG said:

See your above abusive post to se why you are on ignore,

 

 

that didn't take you long, so obviously I'm not.   

 

I feel somewhat humbled to be noticed by Her Honourable Ladyship.  

[Tony Brooks]

5 hours ago, PD1964 said:

It was Murflynn this time that she called an idiot not me, I normally get a bit more. I think she has called most members on here something, so when she gets it back not everyone is ganging up on her or the victim she makes out.  it’s just that she has offended so many people. I don’t think she is a pleasant 76 year old even in the real world and she has earned non of my respect.

 

She certainly got shirty with me when she was looking for a narrowboat and I explained her sea and yacht experience of how boats handle was unlikely to stand her in much stead on a narrowboat in confined  shallow waters. Especially when in reverse alongside pilling and shallow locks.

[blackrose]

11 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I live about 12 miles from her present location - am I going to go and sort out her electrics - am I buggery !!

She can pay her incompetent electricians £70, and wallow in her own pity.

 

I don't blame you. I wouldn't do it either.

 

About 15 years ago I had Chris W. and Alan (keeping up) come to my boat on separate occasions to help me with electrical issues. I gave them petrol money, sandwiches and tea and was very grateful. In turn I've tried to help others and visited to help take a boat onto the tidal Thames with my portable VHF and visited a couple of people who had epoxying questions.

 

It's a nice thing to do for each other, but unfortunately a few people don't realise forum members are just trying to help and don't help themselves either, so they'll end up being left to their own devices or have to deal with tradespeople who don't know what they're doing and will just make matters worse.

Edited May 15, 2021 by blackrose

[Alan de Enfield]

8 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

She certainly got shirty with me when she was looking for a narrowboat and I explained her sea and yacht experience of how boats handle was unlikely to stand her in much stead on a narrowboat in confined  shallow waters. Especially when in reverse alongside pilling and shallow locks.

 

 

You were lucky to only get 'shirty'.

 

Joins the foum, in a matter of weeks is appointed a moderator, has a breakdown, removes posts, makes extremely derogatory comments about people, then deletes them and denies they were ever said, not knowing that several of us actually kept copies.

A nasty piece of work. Those who have not have the benefit of her mouth should consider themselves lucky.

 

They are not rants that any sane person should be subjected to,

[GUMPY]

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

You were lucky to only get 'shirty'.

 

Joins the foum, in a matter of weeks is appointed a moderator, has a breakdown, removes posts, makes extremely derogatory comments about people, then deletes them and denies they were ever said, not knowing that several of us actually kept copies.

A nasty piece of work. Those who have not have the benefit of her mouth should consider themselves lucky.

 

They are not rants that any sane person should be subjected to,

She's gone now 

And according to a post on TB she aint coming back.

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, Loddon said:

She's gone now 

And according to a post on TB she aint coming back.

 

She posted the same here, then 20 minutes later is back calling people ....................

 

 

 

Then the post was closed and subsequently dissapeared (hidden by mods ?)

[Guest]

How hard can it be just to ignore somebodies posts if you dont like what they post?

 

What is this apparent current obsession with one particular member?

 

Its all very very creepy and not a little worrying that so called adults cannot behave a bit less like primary school children sniggering about somebody between themsleves.

[Chagall]

28 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

How hard can it be just to ignore somebodies posts if you dont like what they post?

 

What is this apparent current obsession with one particular member?

 

Its all very very creepy and not a little worrying that so called adults cannot behave a bit less like primary school children sniggering about somebody between themsleves.

Martin, you have been there, don't try and pretend innocence now by championing the holier than thou brigade.    The "obsession" is not as you portray, the member in question is a victim of her own haplessness and people have tried to help and have compassion for her.  It more often than not is thrown back or dismissed as worthless in the face of her own assertions that she is correct in her misunderstandings.  

[ditchcrawler]

4 minutes ago, Chagall said:

Martin, you have been there, don't try and pretend innocence now by championing the holier than thou brigade.    The "obsession" is not as you portray, the member in question is a victim of her own haplessness and people have tried to help and have compassion for her.  It more often than not is thrown back or dismissed as worthless in the face of her own assertions that she is correct in her misunderstandings.  

This is very true but this doesn't stop her being a vulnerable person. I unfortunately  have had to people working for me  who committed suicide, one of them I feel sure now was being bullied, but without doubt I could easily say the way he behaved brought it on himself, but the result was tragic.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Chagall said:

Martin, you have been there, don't try and pretend innocence now by championing the holier than thou brigade.    The "obsession" is not as you portray, the member in question is a victim of her own haplessness and people have tried to help and have compassion for her.  It more often than not is thrown back or dismissed as worthless in the face of her own assertions that she is correct in her misunderstandings.  

 

Have you considered the possibility you might be wrong?

 

If you help somebody and they display haplessenes as you put it in response just dont post. It really is quite simple.

 

If you mean I dont ignore certain posters then I can assure you I do, not by using the ignore function as that is pointless but there are a small number of cretins on here who clearly like to push peoples buttons and when they try it I often won't bite.

 

I'm sure they get a feeling of satisfaction thinking they have scored some sort of internet 'score' but hey ho, Im getting too old.

[Chagall]

1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

This is very true but this doesn't stop her being a vulnerable person. I unfortunately  have had to people working for me  who committed suicide, one of them I feel sure now was being bullied, but without doubt I could easily say the way he behaved brought it on himself, but the result was tragic.

I agree and is why Im glad one particular poster removed his vicious remarks.  Regarding mental health and forum behaviour I have as much difficulty as any when dealing with the "feeding frenzy" backlash from it,  but those who suffer badly with behavioural issues caused by trauma /alcohol or whatever reason might consider it unwise to venture into malicious attitudes themselves.  Forums are not the safest places for such instability, but likewise vulnerable people need to recognise when they actually do need help. It is there in spade fulls if only it could be recognised.

[Arthur Marshall]

45 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

How hard can it be just to ignore somebodies posts if you dont like what they post?

 

What is this apparent current obsession with one particular member?

 

Its all very very creepy and not a little worrying that so called adults cannot behave a bit less like primary school children sniggering about somebody between themsleves.

Some people on here get very upset if the wisdom they impart is rejected. As some of it can be downright dangerous, one should always rely ultimately on one's own judgement, as informed by advice. Sometimes the adviser then gets the hump and attacks every post the advisee then makes, which is why it looks like stalking, even if their knowledge is irrelevant to the subject. It is, as you say  creepy. It seems to be done mostly by those with a huge (and erroneous) sense of their own importance, often those who have left the canal system completely. For which the rest of us, who just want to get on with each other as we trundle round the ditches, can be truly grateful.

[LadyG]

On 14/05/2021 at 14:58, haggis said:

I am losing track. Is Kevin electrician no 9 or is he yesterday's man who a short time ago was useless and you regretted paying him ?

Glad that you are getting help but it might be useful for future reference to find out the answers to the questions the guys on here put to you so patiently.

 

Haggis

 

I keep telling the guys on here that I can't actually provide the info they require.

I can change the battery reading by turning off and on the seven or eight isolator switches.

But I will try to get the multi meter working. Though   I know that from readings overnight that the bows are at about 11.5, the stern are all fully charged, at least as much as I can because the engine is running about four hours per day. 

 

If it was a simple system it would have been sorted by any good electrician, but I cannot judge the quality  of an electrician by just chatting. I have gently encouraged two of them to re design the system, the first agreed to, then gave up, and the current one is very supportive, but I am not sure if he really wants to take this on. 

I can't expect Tony Brooks to sort this mess, he is supposed to be enjoying his retirement, like me, lol.

Kev is current electrician, he is supportive, but I am not sure, if I were him, consider the job is worth the hassle, when his remit was to change batteries and fit radio. It's not looking like that anymore. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 16, 2021 by LadyG

[Naughty Cal]

Those new bow batteries are going to be knackered very quickly if you don't sort out a way to charge them ASAP.

 

They will have been a complete waste of money.

 

Can you not remove them from the bow and make them part of the stern battery bank which is receiving charge?

[Tony Brooks]

If it turns out to be volt drop on the charging leads and we do not know if that is the case yet, it is usually possible to find a way to run the cables  required without much mess as long as the boater accepts the result may not be aesthetically ideal. You can often run cables under the gunnel in plastic trunking for neatness. If that option is unavailable then there is the possibility of running them along the deckhead to cabin side lining and later cover them with a wooden trim or along the floor to hull lining joint and again covering them with a wooden trim or in plastic trunking. On my own boat I  removed the   simple strip of wood hiding the roof to cabin side joint, machined the top of it to form a recess and ran a normal TV aerial lead the length of the boat plus four speaker cables.

 

The boat is  reputed to have had a bow thruster at one point and if so  would lay odds the control cables are still in place but disconnected. They will be thin but if paralleled with the existing charging cables they just might make the  difference needed to make the system more workable (but unlikely to solve any volt drop entirely).

 

However, all this talk of volt drop is only an informed guess so it could be something else altogether like a resistive charge splitting device or even a passive split charge diode.

 

If the suggestion that the front batteries were once charged by a mains charger fed from the large inverter that was removed the those mains wires should still be in place but disconnected. They should provide an opportunity for more cable paralleling, which is far from best practice, or the opportunity to install a small mains charger at the front and run it from the smaller inverter at the back. Doing this the cheapest  way would involve the boater in manually switching the charger on when the main batteries are receiving sufficient charge and then off again when the charge rate drops. I think this has already been suggested and it could be automated.

 

It is even possible that Kevin has inadvertently had a cable fall out of a terminal and has not noticed - unlikely but possible. Then there is the possibility that something similar has happened at the other end of the boat.

 

The talk of three battery master switches connected to one busbar suggests there may be no charge splitting but then we are told there are 16 master switches. I am wondering if battery master/isolated switches are being confused with circuit breakers or individual circuit isolators.

 

What this means is that it needs careful and very time-consuming investigation before any sensible decisions can be made and that  sort of time I would expect a competent boat electrician to be short of and maybe unwilling to spend because invoicing it would be likely to get a reputation for overcharging and under delivering.

 

The more LadyG can investigate and feed back herself and report back the more the system can be understood so the more likely there is to find some kind of resolution.

[Tony Brooks]

32 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

Those new bow batteries are going to be knackered very quickly if you don't sort out a way to charge them ASAP.

 

They will have been a complete waste of money.

 

Can you not remove them from the bow and make them part of the stern battery bank which is receiving charge?

 

I think they are difficult to access so LadyG may not be physically capable. I also think the wiring is  a bit of a rats nest making the disconnection and reconnection seem daunting.  I suggest an  extension lead plus very modest mains charger might be the cheapest and simplest way of trying to preserve those batteries for now. If LadyG can get them out then taking one out at a time (cable length willing) and connecting each one to the main bank for charging might work,

[Chris John]

On the thread that was removed I commented about how badly the forum was moderated. One of the “moderators” (a term I use lightly) then felt the need to be critical because I’d made a slight typo (very childish) Really? I’m mean come on these are the ones that should be setting an example by not letting bullying be published and not being critical of others who may have inabilities. 
I’ll say it again this is a poorly moderated forum who’s moderators constantly let threads go totally off track and allow bickering and bullying of others. 
Yes I don’t have to look at the forum but I am and will continue to. I await the criticism of this post (no doubt from “moderators”) 

Edited May 16, 2021 by Chris John
Add content

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, Chris John said:

On the thread that was removed I commented about how badly the forum was moderated. One of the “moderators” (a term I use lightly) then felt the need to be critical because I’d made a slight typo. Really? I’m mean come on these are the ones that should be setting an example by not letting bully be published and not being critical of others who may have inabilities. 
I’ll say it again this is a poorly moderated forum who’s moderators constantly let threads go totally off track and allow bickering and bullying of others. 
Yes I don’t have to look at the forum but I am and will continue to. I await the criticism of this post (no doubt from “moderators”) 

 

Simple answer - you become a moderator and show us how it should be done. Otherwise, you have no grounds for complaint if you insist on keeping on using the forum.

 

I doubt you have a very long memory otherwise you would know the problem rouge moderators caused a few years ago. Also are you aware its policy not to normally moderate the political section where the worst behaviour is to be found.