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Explains my electrical system which is like no other


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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Do you think that the Bow-batteries are being charged from the battery charger part of the combi, so in effect the combi is taking a 12v supply, inverting it to 230v and then running the charger part of the combi to charge the bow batteries ?

 

So, charging the bow batteries from the stern batteries ?

 

 

I've seen a few where the bowthruster batteries have a small mains charger run off the inverter.  

 

The now removed charger in Jo's case ...

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3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Do you think that the Bow-batteries are being charged from the battery charger part of the combi, so in effect the combi is taking a 12v supply, inverting it to 230v and then running the charger part of the combi to charge the bow batteries ?

 

So, charging the bow batteries from the stern batteries ?

When off a landline that is exactly what I think is happening. When on a landline obviously they are charged from the mains.

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2 minutes ago, Loddon said:

When off a landline that is exactly what I think is happening. When on a landline obviously they are charged from the mains.

 

She needs to accept that she needs help, and will have to pay proper rates for proper help, non of this 'my mates an electrician' sort of help.

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3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

She needs to accept that she needs help, and will have to pay proper rates for proper help, non of this 'my mates an electrician' sort of help.

She is at Burton Waters today. She can get help there.

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1 minute ago, nb Innisfree said:

Good method, works well if installed correctly. 

Yes saves running 70mm cable down the length of the boat.

I would use a relay to switch the charger on and off so it would only be on when either the charge voltage to the rear batteries was above 13.8v or mains was being supplied to the rear Combi. Luckily Victron combis have this switching system built in ?

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6 hours ago, Murflynn said:

if you can't find or create a wiring diagram then no-one can be sure what the problems are and how they can be resolved.

 

.........................   if you or a competent technical guy (doesn't need to be one of your incompetent electricians) cannot create such a document then, as was suggested earlier, rip it all out and start again  ..................  or at least disconnect everything, check each wire for continuity so you can identify them at each end, and then re-connect in accordance with a well-designed wiring diagram.    There are plenty of books and documents out there (ask Tony Brooks) to help you design a proper wiring system.

 

Completely agree. If Lady G could at least draw a very basic wiring diagram of how she thinks the system works then people could start to ask questions and offer advice on how to improve the diagram. Eventually she'd end up with a complete picture and would understand the system herself. 

 

I think I'd probably struggle to draw a proper  detailed wiring diagram of my system but I could have a good go and show the basics of how the charging system works.

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6 hours ago, LadyG said:

Which problem is that, the photo thing, anyway it has not worked, 

I hit the three spots, and it opened up, at my gmail, 

I wanted to send it to my laptop, maybe itbis already there, I have no idea, butbit fpdid not like me sending it from phome gmail to laptop gmail

"from ladyg etc.

To ?

The other option were files

Messages

Maps

try https://postimages.org

upload your image, it will give you back a link and give the link to the image here. No need to send to your laptop.

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5 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Yes saves running 70mm cable down the length of the boat.

I would use a relay to switch the charger on and off so it would only be on when either the charge voltage to the rear batteries was above 13.8v or mains was being supplied to the rear Combi. Luckily Victron combis have this switching system built in ?

 

 

You probably wouldn't run the fridge off the bowthruster batteries either though...

  • Horror 1
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8 minutes ago, blackrose said:

I think I'd probably struggle to draw a proper  detailed wiring diagram of my system but I could have a good go and show the basics of how the charging system works.

As I've said somewhere else the system I inherited on my boat had been knitted using exclusively brown wires. When I say knitted, it looked like a rat had made a nest which was then used to supply power via a non existent fuse box! It was horrible, even though I know how to use a multi meter everything showed power flow, even when nothing was turned on. Somehow it never drained the batteries.

If I hadn't sold the boat I would have eventually had to rewire with different colours through a fuse box.

TBH I am surprised Lady G replaced the bow batteries, the main bank of leisure units should have been able to supply all the power she requires.

Edited by manxmike
forgot something
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3 hours ago, MrsM said:

I know it is a big expense but why not bite the bullet and book the Burton Waters' electrician? Presumably he knows and understands boat electrics. Between now and when he is available you could make a clear list of all the very important questions that the experts in here have asked you. You could then get the electrician to give you the answers. Surely this will save you money and grief in the long run, compared to getting a string of chaps who you are not happy with? And you should end up with a better understanding of your system. Lincoln is a lovely place to stop over for a few days - big Morrisons a few minutes walk from the Foss and Marina. (And a Halfords over the road should you decide to change your new radio). Good luck. 

It is £70 just to look, and he is not available for a few weeks. This is such a dificult job I can't trust just anyone, they all said they were electricians, but tbh there are those that only know modern plastic boats, and those who understand narrowboats and owner fitouts.

HOWEVER best news is that Kevin the Elctrik, turns out to know the job, and is stuck in to it as we speak.

He has identified what is hsppening, and what is  going on :)

Engine running for for hours now and LED voltage showing 12.v.

I HAVE MUSIC  success!!!!!!!

I have power to batteries, even if there is a long way to go.

Cheers

This has been a difficult day

Edited by LadyG
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3 minutes ago, LadyG said:

It is £70 just to look, and he is not available for a few weeks.

HOWEVER best news is that Kevin the Elctrik, turns out to know the job, and is stuck in to it as we speak.

He has identified what is hsppening, and whatvis goingbon.

Engine running for for hours now and LED voltage showing 12.v.

I HAVE MUSIC  success!!!!!!!!

 

That's great news. Please please please ask him to kindly look at your system so that you can supply these patient and helpful people with some of the information they need to give you further guidance, without them having to second-quess what the setup is! M

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10 minutes ago, LadyG said:

It is £70 just to look, and he is not available for a few weeks. This is such a dificult job I can't trust just anyone, they all said they were electricians, but tbh there are those that only know modern plastic boats, and those who understand narrowboats and owner fitouts.

HOWEVER best news is that Kevin the Elctrik, turns out to know the job, and is stuck in to it as we speak.

He has identified what is hsppening, and what is  going on :)

Engine running for for hours now and LED voltage showing 12.v.

I HAVE MUSIC  success!!!!!!!

I have power to batteries, even if there is a long way to go.

Cheers

This has been a difficult day

Electrics are electrics it doesn't matter if they are on a modern plastic boat or a narrowboat. The theory is exactly the same.

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9 minutes ago, LadyG said:

It is £70 just to look, and he is not available for a few weeks. This is such a dificult job I can't trust just anyone, they all said they were electricians, but tbh there are those that only know modern plastic boats, and those who understand narrowboats and owner fitouts.

HOWEVER best news is that Kevin the Elctrik, turns out to know the job, and is stuck in to it as we speak.

He has identified what is hsppening, and what is  going on :)

Engine running for for hours now and LED voltage showing 12.v.

I HAVE MUSIC  success!!!!!!!

I have power to batteries, even if there is a long way to go.

Cheers

This has been a difficult day

I am losing track. Is Kevin electrician no 9 or is he yesterday's man who a short time ago was useless and you regretted paying him ?

Glad that you are getting help but it might be useful for future reference to find out the answers to the questions the guys on here put to you so patiently.

 

Haggis

 

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19 minutes ago, LadyG said:

HOWEVER best news is that Kevin the Elctrik, turns out to know the job, and is stuck in to it as we speak.

He has identified what is hsppening, and what is  going on :)

Engine running for for hours now and LED voltage showing 12.v.

I HAVE MUSIC  success!!!!!!!

I have power to batteries, even if there is a long way to go.

Cheers

This has been a difficult day

Please get him to write down what the problem was and his remedy and put it on here word for word.

Please don’t put it in “yourspeak” as all you will probably do is confuse and get the technical aspects wrong and no-one will be any wiser to what the original problems were.

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55 minutes ago, restlessnomad said:

try https://postimages.org

upload your image, it will give you back a link and give the link to the image here. No need to send to your laptop.

Or post on here from your phone, compose your text, then click the "Add Files" button at the bottom of the new post box, navigate to where your phone stores its images and click on the relevant picture file(s), and then click Done, and the image(s) will upload to the forum. Then place your cursor in the message text where you want an image to appear and click the + symbol on the image, and it will appear in the text. And then click Submit. Robert is your mother's brother.

Edited by David Mack
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2 hours ago, David Mack said:

The problem is that we don't know how these batteries are charged since an earlier electrician removed the bow charger. My guess is that there are long relatively thin wires running the length of the boat, so whenever the bow batteries are not fully charged (I.e. most of the time) the charge current creates a significant volt drop, and so the bow batteries don't get to see a full charge voltage. Given enough time, and no load on the bow batteries, they will charge fully. But as LadyG is using them to power the fridge, that never happens . Hence they get knackered. It has been suggested more than once that dedicated fat wires from the main rear battery bank to the fridge would be more sensible, but it seems her ladyship doesn't want to do that. And so her problems will continue.

It a not that I don't want to improve the system, it's that I can't.

Most electricians say leave it as it is, or rip it out and start again. None of them want to start again, it's considered to be a workable system

The fridge is normally off, I have discovered that if I have engine and fridge on for an hour my freezer chills my G and T. I have accepted that as a workable system, I no longer buy frozen food, I tried leaving fridge on for a week, and it seems the immersion heater might also have been on, that experiment was a fail, and the new bow batteries were installed as soon as I found an electrician. 

They will take a very long time to charge up fully. Still hovering around 12v

Edited by LadyG
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Whether or not you want to improve your system it is important that you understand how it is put together and how it works (on a basic level), what the various switches do/don't and how your battery banks are charged. While you have access to an electrician that you trust it would be sensible to get him to explain these things  to you. And you still need to be able to provide answers to Tony's questions for when you next need help. I feel for you doing this alone but hopefully things will seem less chaotic once you have a clearer overview of your boat's electrics. M

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1 hour ago, LadyG said:

It a not that I don't want to improve the system, it's that I can't.

Most electricians say leave it as it is, or rip it out and start again. None of them want to start again, it's considered to be a workable system

The fridge is normally off, I have discovered that if I have engine and fridge on for an hour my freezer chills my G and T. I have accepted that as a workable system, I no longer buy frozen food, I tried leaving fridge on for a week, and it seems the immersion heater might also have been on, that experiment was a fail, and the new bow batteries were installed as soon as I found an electrician. 

They will take a very long time to charge up fully. Still hovering around 12v

I take it that these are all the incompetent chancer electricians that you have employed previously, all you have done in the past is criticise and condemn their work, so why take any notice to what they say now?

  I find a lot of the stuff you write when you ask for help confusing and lacking any knowledge of boats or technical ability/knowledge. All this from someone that claims a superior intelligence to most. So please get the electrician you are using now to draw you a basic wiring diagram schematic of your boat, so in future you might have some idea what your talking about and can name the components involved when you need help. 

 

Edited by PD1964
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There one was a wiring diagram, very basic, and not very accurate. 

There are numerous isolator switches, at least six. 

There are dozens of other switches, most are obvious, some are not.

There are fuses from the ceramic era through the 1960s auto, to a few modern ones. 

None of the electricians have wanted the job of sorting the system, I've left the opportunity open to them, well to those I considered competent. 

I really don't want to spend any more time or money on the work, I just want to get the inside decor finished and get on with my retirement, stress free, that was the plan and still is. 

 

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