Training for novice hirers?

[fanshaft]

On 12/05/2021 at 13:44, The Happy Nomad said:

 

Depends what you call 'a lot'

 

Off the top of my head (apart from the one you mention) I can think of the Cropedy one, the one at Alrewas and the four people who drowned on the L&L in Steg Neck lock between Newton and Gargrave when their hire boat hung up on the lock gates, slipped and fell back into the lock.

The accident at Gargrave didn't involve a hire boat sinking - it was a community boat with a professional skipper who, from memory, was distracted talking to the crew of a hire boat sharing the lock.  One of the hire boat crew, a young chap, actually attempted a rescue but tragically was unsuccessful.  I seem to recall providing evidence. 

[fanshaft]

13 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Didn't used to be the case though. I can recall completely unqualified people operating trip boats with up to 12 passengers, or canal society workboats and the like. When did the requirement come in (on the canals)?

 I skippered passenger boats,  up to 78 seaters from 1971 with no licence - I think this was a requirement post the Marchioness accident (1989).  More recently (2006?) the rest of the 'non private pleasure' categories, such as coal boats, work boats, small trip boats (up to 12 plus crew) etc  were covered with very few exceptions.

DL

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, fanshaft said:

The accident at Gargrave didn't involve a hire boat sinking - it was a community boat with a professional skipper who, from memory, was distracted talking to the crew of a hire boat sharing the lock.  One of the hire boat crew, a young chap, actually attempted a rescue but tragically was unsuccessful.  I seem to recall providing evidence. 

 

The accident I'm refering to was Drum Major, which was AFAIK was on hire from Silsden?

 

Hired to staff from a health trust with staff from the Trust crewing.

[fanshaft]

Just now, The Happy Nomad said:

 

The accident I'm refering to was Drum Major, which was AFAIK was on hire from Silsden?

 

Hired to staff from a health trust with staff from the Trust crewing.

Ah yes I recall that one also. Yes, Silsden.

 

Thanks.

 

D

[Guest]

https://www.gov.uk/maib-reports/contact-and-sinking-of-narrow-boat-drum-major-while-descending-in-steg-neck-lock-on-the-leeds-and-liverpool-canal-near-gargrave-england-with-loss-of-4-lives

[Alan de Enfield]

And, of course 'Pleasure Vessels' can come under control of the MCA as well, with everything from skippers qualifications to the contents of the 1st Aid Kit, to the hours the crew can work.

 

A 30 page Government Document :

 

 

 

[Big Bob W]

Previously, I spent a season helping with handovers on a hire fleet.

 

The hire companies have an obligation to ensure the crews have training on boat handling, locks, safety etc. The handover guys have to sign off paperwork confirming they have done this and the hirers also sign to confirm they have received this training and accept their obligations. In our case, the hirers received a handbook and DVD after booking, they watched a video again on arrival at the base, had instruction using a model of a lock (not ideal, but no locks close to the base) and then a trial run up to a winding hole and back.

 

Personally, I would never sign off on anyone who I thought was not safe. On the trial run I would again go over locking procedures etc to make sure they knew what to expect. The ones who were still apprehensive, I would suggest they moor up before their first lock and take a walk up to observe first.

 

One memorable couple just could not get the hang of steering and were terrified with the boat movement!! I spent several hours trying to help them, but they had no confidence whatsoever. They were actually quite relieved when we suggested they stay put in the marina for the week and used the boat as a holiday cottage! 

 

There were then the customers who were quite competent, but I knew damn well as soon as they were out of sight, all the kids would be on the roof and the boat will be going full pelt to the nearest pub where it will moor up on the lock landing for the night. I was never comfortable with this, but what can you do.

 

I fear this summer there will be a new breed of hirers out there. The ones who have no real interest in boating and are just doing it as its one of the few options for a holiday right now. I did consider going back to help with handovers again. I met some great people and enjoyed introducing them to the canals. However I don't think I would have the patience to deal with this new breed!

 

[Arthur Marshall]

Anything you do on holiday can involve the risk of waking up dead, including driving to the hire boat base. Seaside holiday - drown in the sea. Hiking? Trampled by cows. Mountaineering? Cycling? Mostly, you survive to grow older and wiser. A few don't. 

"If not duffers, won't drown" is still valid, and the world won't miss a few duffers who can't be bothered to use the stuff between their ears. But mostly, even idiots survive, as can be seen from the sheer overwhelming quantity of them still in existence.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, The Happy Nomad said:

https://www.gov.uk/maib-reports/contact-and-sinking-of-narrow-boat-drum-major-while-descending-in-steg-neck-lock-on-the-leeds-and-liverpool-canal-near-gargrave-england-with-loss-of-4-lives

 

Its a while since I've read that report and I'd forgotten that the skipper of that boat was actually not only an experienced hire boater with Silsden but also he actually was a boater owner himself. Because of this they actually didnt do a handover. It probably wouldnt have made much difference and it shows how even the experienced can get caught out.

 

 

[Keeping Up]

For many years I helped show hirers out, teaching them as much as possible in a short time. On one occasion I even gave them a demonstration of how to fall in by missing your footing when stepping from the boat to the bank .

[Mad Harold]

5 minutes ago, Keeping Up said:

For many years I helped show hirers out, teaching them as much as possible in a short time. On one occasion I even gave them a demonstration of how to fall in by missing your footing when stepping from the boat to the bank .

That's going above and beyond!

You deserve a medal as big as a dustbin lid!?

[David Mack]

47 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

Its a while since I've read that report and I'd forgotten that the skipper of that boat was actually not only an experienced hire boater with Silsden but also he actually was a boater owner himself. Because of this they actually didnt do a handover. It probably wouldnt have made much difference and it shows how even the experienced can get caught out.

 

 

I think that accident was the prompt for BW/CRT to fit boards between the top of the gate and the underside of the balance beam to reduce the chance of bow fenders getting caught.

[ditchcrawler]

If you want to see a good hirer handover go to Anderson Boats at Middlewich, For every boat one instructor on the boat and one lock side with the crew, they are lucky they have 3 locks on their door step

[Great Plum]

This is very pertinent to me. I am a first time renter of a canal boat (whilst I have been on canals and opened / closed locks with scouts, that was over 20 years ago!) I will be boring the family with what to do / watching YouTube videos etc before July. It’ll be interesting to see what instruction we get from Anderton marina.

[Alan de Enfield]

8 minutes ago, Great Plum said:

This is very pertinent to me. I am a first time renter of a canal boat (whilst I have been on canals and opened / closed locks with scouts, that was over 20 years ago!) I will be boring the family with what to do / watching YouTube videos etc before July. It’ll be interesting to see what instruction we get from Anderton marina.

 

Good luck, but most of all - enjoy !!!