Training for novice hirers?

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

 

Most reasonable people -- including me -- would take this to mean that you endorsed the view stated, otherwise why point out this and nothing else?

 

 

Actually I think most people realised it was a direct quote.

 

It was obviously pointed out because missing it out in the quoted post as if the point about hire boaters had been missed gave the impression that Alan didn't realise that hire boaters were in fact exempt from certification, when in fact he is.

 

Quiet simple really.

 

PS anyway -  who the heck gets to decide if they themselves are 'reasonable' or not?  That's for other people to say surely?

[Nightwatch]

We followed for a short time a Clifton Cruisers hire boat. Two couples onboard. Not very efficient at the steering game and zig zagging along the canal. They had aready let one boat past and then after about half an hour pulled over to the left hand side (tow path side) as if mooring up. When was passed them they weren’t holding lines or anything, so I asked them if they were mooring up or letting us pass. They were letting us pass. The steerer shouted across I can’t get the hang of this, I asked are you enjoying yourself because that’s all that matters. They were having a great time. Good, I said. And they were!

3 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

It will be better to handle than you think and hugely more comfortable than any sewer tube!!

Says an ex-boater!!! of a so called sewer tube.

3 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

Edited May 12, 2021 by Nightwatch

[Alan de Enfield]

13 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

Says an ex-boater!!! of a so called sewer tube.

 

 

And .............  a gurt big 'cruise ship'.

 

 

 

 

 

Not suggesting that Mrsmelly was in charge at the time, but even ex-spurts can get it wrong.

 

 

A pleasure boat which has remained stricken by Trent Bridge in Nottingham has been moved after river levels dropped. A painstaking operation to remove the Nottingham Princess from scaffolding, which it hit on Friday evening, has been taking place throughout the weekend. Attempts to refloat the vessel by its owners and engineers had been thwarted by high river levels. Tugs moved the boat just after 1600 on Monday when water levels were judged to have dropped enough.   The stricken cruiser in pictures Hundreds of people gathered on the riverbank to watch the Nottingham Princess moved away from the bridge. None of the 140 passengers on the boat when it crashed were seriously injured and the scene of the incident has become something of a minor tourist attraction.   An investigation into why the cruiser crashed is being carried out by the Marine Accident Investigation Branch. It will be examining whether the relevant safety procedures were followed and whether the boat should have been on the river. The boat's owner, Joseph Wilson, insists the damage is superficial and the pleasure cruiser will soon be back in operation. The boat will be towed to Newark for repairs.

 

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by Alan de Enfield

[Nightwatch]

Thought he was only the cabin boy!!

[IanD]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Yet again you make yourself look a fool;

 

It was totally relevant to the post I was replying to where Detling had said :

 

 

and to which I pointed out that he had missed the paragraph saying that hire boaters did not need licences, 

 

 

But of course with your well known prejudices against certain boaters, you make out that I 'endorsed the view'. I have no idea how you could make that leap of fantasy.

 

Maybe you would be better in future replying to posts which were addressed to you and not to another poster.

Let's not get into a "maybe you'd be better..." discussion, your name might carry a longer list than mine... ?

[mrsmelly]

25 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

Thought he was only the cabin boy!!

Twas not myself skipper on that day thankfuly it was Norman who has also since retired. The ful MAIB report is available online. Twas a miracle no one was killed getting em all off onto Trent Bridge. I still have my licence and it was fun for a while and its a great river especialy in flood. Shes licensed for 172 and we very very often went out full with 160 passengers and 12 crew.

[Alan de Enfield]

37 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

Thought he was only the cabin boy!!

 

That was when he was on the Good ship Venus (my God you should have seen us) and he was known as "Kipper"

[rustynewbery]

Not seaman stains then

 

Re: fatalities, there was also a teacher who fell off the back and drowned on the B&F at Erdington, under the building spanning the canal near Troutpool bridge

[Paul Evans]

53 minutes ago, rustynewbery said:

Not seaman stains then

Certainly was, Master Bates. 

[Alan de Enfield]

O' Dear what have I started.

 

But Mabel was not able.

[Ray T]

Semi tongue in cheek but if folks new to the cut could find time to explore this simulator it would give some tuition with a bit of fun.

 

Narrowboat Simulator – Narrowboating for Beginners

 

 

It is even possible to "cill" a boat.

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by Ray T

[matty40s]

2 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

Twas not myself skipper on that day thankfuly it was Norman who has also since retired. The ful MAIB report is available online. Twas a miracle no one was killed getting em all off onto Trent Bridge. I still have my licence and it was fun for a while and its a great river especialy in flood. Shes licensed for 172 and we very very often went out full with 160 passengers and 12 crew.

Ah, any old bugger can steer that thing....?

[cuthound]

When I first hired in 1973 the training was so good that we set off and left the mooring lines and pins behind!

 

Luckily we had taken a (licensed) canoe with us, so at the end of the day when we noticed they were missing, I was able to go back to base (where they were still attached to the pins and dangling in the cut) and retrieve them.

[Nightwatch]

2 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

Twas not myself skipper on that day thankfuly it was Norman who has also since retired. The ful MAIB report is available online. Twas a miracle no one was killed getting em all off onto Trent Bridge. I still have my licence and it was fun for a while and its a great river especialy in flood. Shes licensed for 172 and we very very often went out full with 160 passengers and 12 crew.

Hadn’t realised that the list was referring to an accident. My flippant comment may have been unjustified.

1 hour ago, Ray T said:

Semi tongue in cheek but if folks new to the cut could find time to explore this simulator it would give some tuition with a bit of fun.

 

Narrowboat Simulator – Narrowboating for Beginners

 

 

It is even possible to "cill" a boat.

 

I don’t need stimulation.

[StephenA]

6 hours ago, pearley said:

We hired our first boat in 1979 from Canalcraft at what is now ABC Hire at Anderson. We had one of their staff showing us what to do as far as the first bridge going South with a promise that someone would meet us a Big Lock.

 

We arrived at dusk and were standing looking at the lock when someone came out of the pub and proceeded to show us what to do. It wasn't until he'd finished we realised he was just a drinker on his way home.

 

Like Rob M we hired every year after that and no one ever gave us instruction on locking, not even Alvechurch.

 

We had the same experience with Masterfleet in 1979 - but we didn't get help from anyone in the pub.

 

 

[sueb]

We were doing a charity event along the Thames when we came across a hire boat that had a fatality. A crew member had put their head through a window just as the boat got too close to a bridge. You just can't stop all accidents.

[ditchcrawler]

9 hours ago, Hudds Lad said:

 

First time we hired I was a clueless newb as green as fresh mown grass, and i don't mind admitting it. I was a bit apprehensive about the whole thing and after the 30min instructional watching of the dvd in the office with all the other hirers i felt even worse, then everyone else nominated me to be walked through the boat systems and i can honestly say 90% of it went right over my head. Information overload is entirely accurate.

Funny we came through Penkridge this trip, this is where I had my first introduction to narrowboating. I had  never seen a lock or narrowboat before. The yard should me how to work the greaser, check the oil and water, start and stop the engine, the recirculating flush toilet etc. no instruction on locks. I turned up at the first lock, never seen one before, no instruction and took all three windlasses because I didn't know if a specific one was required for specific locks paddles. It was then down to me.

In the course of then next 4 holidays I went too fast past moored boats, whipped top paddles up far to fast for other boaters, moored in the wrong places.,

[howardang]

I heard a story from an experienced and well qualified boater who was sitting on a bench near a lock which was not too far from a hire base. A hire boat appeared and two crew members got off and went to set the lock. After opening both paddles at one end they then went to the other end and opened both paddles at that end as well, and then stood waiting for something. My colleague went to them and put them straight about the correct procedure.

 

It seems that they had been briefed very well by the hire company about all the facilities on board, but less so when it came to operating a lock. It seems that the boatyard referred to the windlass throughout as a lock key without explaining what its function actually was.  They had got the obviously wrong impression that it was necessary to unlock the gates before then opening them. It was their first time on a hire boat !
 

Howard

 

 

 

[robtheplod]

With the internet and YouTube there isn't really any excuse for people to not know at least the theory when they pickup the boat. The instruction we got when hiring was poor though and we only learnt the ropes as we travelled with an experienced single boater who gave us all instructions (mainly so he could get up Hatton quicker!) 

 

The best thing is to help and advise when you come across those struggling, that way they are safer and have a better holiday.... they may also be new recruits to the canals!

Edited May 13, 2021 by robtheplod

[Rob-M]

I helped a dad and his son's last year at Gailey, when we arrived they were arguing about what paddles had to be opened and trying to open the top gate when the lock wasn't full.  I took time to explain to them what to do, then stopped them tieing the boat up in the lock and made sure they were clear of the cill.  They took it all in as by the time we got to the next lock there was no sign of them.

[midnight cowboy]

20 hours ago, The Happy Nomad said:

The best pre hire training we got was from Snaygill Boats at Skipton back in 2003 so I don't know if they still do this.

 

On the day we picked the boat up were given some tuition and basic handling and shown how to operate a swing bridge (Heading West).

 

They then told us to cruise up to the section just before Holme Bridge, moor for the night and ring them the next morning and somebody would come up and show us how to do the lock.

 

This we duly did and were given tuition on how to do it correctly.

 

But then The yard is quite close and it lends itself quite easily to doing this.

 

They also are (were) a relatively small hire firm with a small number of boats going out at any one time, I doubt the bigger companies could replicate this.

 

We hired from them in 2005 - they had a car mechanic we called to meet us at the first lock some miles from the boatyard.

[rustynewbery]

A Willow Wren boat out of Rugby arrived at Hillmorton bottom lock and proceeded to open top and bottom paddles.  Lady arrives to ask if they needed any advice and was told to F Off. Said lady then asked if they recognised her - she was the owner of the yard and reminded them of the full briefing she had given them less than an hour or so ago which included instructions on how to use the locks.

 

You can take a horse to water............

[fanshaft]

On 12/05/2021 at 11:23, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I believe we are one of the very few countries that do not require training and a licence for owners.

 

France for example :

 

In French waters, a boat licence is necessary to be able to operate a boat when the power of the motor or motors exceeds 4.5 kilowatts or 6 horsepower. There are three different licences:

• Carte Mer - daytime coastal sailing, 6 to 50 HP;

• Permis Mer Côtier - nighttime sailing, further offshore, over 50 HP;

• Permis Mer Hauturier - high seas, all forms of boating.

For inland waterways, there are separate specific licences. Licences to operate motorised pleasure craft are for non-commercial use only.

 

Anyone wishing to sail for commercial purposes must obtain the relevant professional qualification. More information is available through the Ministry of Ecology, Sustainable Development, Transport and Housing. 

 

 

 

 

ICC plus CEVNI

If as a visitor you are planning to use the French canals and rivers, the boat’s skipper must have an ICC certificate as endorsed for Inland Waters (having also passed the CEVNI exam).

Inland waterway regulations come into effect once a vessel is upstream of the seaward limit of each estuary. The category of licence required is determined by the size of craft and the power of the engine.

Paradoxically, hire boat skippers (i.e the most inexperienced) need no qualifications at all (merely some very limited tuition) and this is another reason why hire boats should be treated with caution by more seasoned boaters, especially those piloting their own craft.

Sorry just found this thread.  In the UK anyone who is in charge of a boat on inland waterways and the use is other than 'private pleasure' (i.e. it's not a private boat or a hire boat) whether paid or unpaid  must have a Boatmaster licence or alternative, depending on size of boat and operation.

David L

[fanshaft]

On 12/05/2021 at 11:59, IanD said:

The simple fact is that given the number of novice hirers at the moment, requiring half a days training for them -- which I agree is not a bad idea, but must include actually being taken out and through locks and showing that they can steer/control the boat -- just wouldn't work with the way hire bases function today.

 

One problem is there simply aren't enough experienced staff at the bases to spend half a day with each novice hirer, and the second is that most hirers want turnaround to be at the weekend for obvious reasons. Even if turnarounds were spread evenly over the week I doubt that most bases could meet the training demand without taking on extra staff, since one person could only turn round two boats per day.

 

It does seem that some hire bases are negligent about the training they provide, though the ones I've hired from (including Shire) seem better than most -- but then I tend to use the more expensive firms with good reputations.

Bradford Boat Services used to take their boats all the way from Apperley Bridge to the top of Bingley Five Rise locks and when I ran hire boats from Shipley we did the same - also offering to escort back from the top of Five Rise if desired.  This was before there were lock keepers - the Five Rise Lock Keeper (Eddie) looked after all eleven from Bingley to Hirst Wood.  BBS was an early hire boat company, started in the mid 1950s and from whom my family hired our first ( leaky)  canal boat in about 1962.  It rained all week, the engine wouldn't start, and the converted lifeboat leaked top and bottom -  and we had a great time!

David L

[David Mack]

5 minutes ago, fanshaft said:

Sorry just found this thread.  In the UK anyone who is in charge of a boat on inland waterways and the use is other than 'private pleasure' (i.e. it's not a private boat or a hire boat) whether paid or unpaid  must have a Boatmaster licence or alternative, depending on size of boat and operation.

David L

Didn't used to be the case though. I can recall completely unqualified people operating trip boats with up to 12 passengers, or canal society workboats and the like. When did the requirement come in (on the canals)?