Alde 2920 leaking fluid

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

Yes immediately delete your email address form the forum or you will get spammed for ever more. If you   email them to me (my address is in the public domain) and I will crunch them if necessary and put them on for you. Tony@tb-training.co.uk

 

Nice offer Tony.

[droshky]

Yes that seems sensible, thanks. I do pretty much get continuous spam anyway presumably for earlier sins!

 

Apple photos later than 6s are too big. The official apple way is to download their app ( there’s a few million bytes straight off!) and shrink them using it.  emailing to myself was a fix to shrink them myself, but you then can’t save them from email attachment to a location that canalworld can recognise and open...or something!

 

Thanks again Tony, David and all.

Does your 2928, David, look tall and thin like ours? We’ve got some shelving and such around it which we’d really like to keep if possible.
 

I gather we’d need a new chimney arrangement (bigger hole? New pipe?). If it’s alright with you Tony, another photo coming for retransmission at your convenience... or from the kitchen if you prefer!

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, droshky said:

Yes that seems sensible, thanks. I do pretty much get continuous spam anyway presumably for earlier sins!

 

Apple photos later than 6s are too big. The official apple way is to download their app ( there’s a few million bytes straight off!) and shrink them using it.  emailing to myself was a fix to shrink them myself, but you then can’t save them from email attachment to a location that canalworld can recognise and open...or something!

 

Thanks again Tony, David and all.

Does your 2928, David, look tall and thin like ours? We’ve got some shelving and such around it which we’d really like to keep if possible.
 

I gather we’d need a new chimney arrangement (bigger hole? New pipe?). If it’s alright with you Tony, another photo coming for retransmission at your convenience... or from the kitchen if you prefer!

 

 

 

I think it will be identical width and height wise but it will have  an air hose running down back so it may need more depth and as someone said above the wiring is a bit different.

[frangar]

1 minute ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I think it will be identical width and height wise but it will have  an air hose running down back so it may need more depth and as someone said above the wiring is a bit different.

Yep...just the air hose and the flue diameter...the height is similar but the "gap" is at the top not the bottom as there isnt the air intake at the very bottom....its on the side of the heat exchanger (Thermal Store in Alde speak) and the gap at the top allows for the intake hose.

[David Mack]

 

5 hours ago, droshky said:

where’s David?

I'm in Yorkshire, but the boat and the Alde are at Glascote.

2 hours ago, droshky said:

Does your 2928, David, look tall and thin like ours? We’ve got some shelving and such around it which we’d really like to keep if possible.

Yes, very much like that, except it has a flexible tube down the back taking air down from the roof terminal to the burner.

Edited May 10, 2021 by David Mack

[David Mack]

4 hours ago, frangar said:

I would take david up on his offer...I swapped a 2920 for a 2928..you need the terminal flue from the roof and make the hole in the roof bigger.....the wiring might also need changing as they need a 12v supply for the ignitor as well as the thermostat cable which is basically a switch in a loop from the boiler in a 2928...in a 2920 it can be a switched feed to the pump.

Roof terminal is available too. Wiring is a bit of a mess and looks to have been bodged in the past. But there may be a wiring diagram in the manual.

[droshky]

Great thanks David, have sent you a pm

[frangar]

11 minutes ago, droshky said:

Great thanks David, have sent you a pm

I’ve got service & install manuals. Send me a pm with your email and I’ll zip them over if you want. 

[Tony Brooks]

12 hours ago, David Mack said:

Roof terminal is available too. Wiring is a bit of a mess and looks to have been bodged in the past. But there may be a wiring diagram in the manual.

 

There are a couple but the large ones involve the optional mains heated extra boiler that is fitted at the back and are rather complicated. I took me ages to sort that diagram out but the wiring is fairly simple. The 2928 uses a room thermostat with its own on/off switch but a normal sta.t can be used with a remote on/off switch which is what I did. You will not need a double pole, double throw switch. That was needed to switch between room sta.t and cylinder stat. A single throw single pole switch will do the job.

 

When I was preparing to modify mine to allow for a cylinder stat for summer use I worked out the following but please ignore the bottom bit because it related to the modifications I made:-

 

 

 

 

 

Alde.pdf

Edited May 11, 2021 by Tony Brooks

[Opener]

On 10/05/2021 at 17:17, Tony Brooks said:

Just found an exploded parts list for a 2920  and it looks as if there are indeed a rubber seal inside that 1"? nut.

 

It looks as if the porcedure will be:

 

Remove the motor and pump and tuck out of the way.

Remove the horizontal hot water out connection on the neat exchanger. I think its a rubber hose.

Undo the large nut and push down the steel tube that its around. At thispoint I think that you will see the seals and backing washer.

 

I don't think there are any screws securing the expansion tank to the body of the heater but have a very good look.

 

Firmly pull the expansion tank upwards while gently twisting it back and forth.

 

I suspect the actual seal might just be a fat O ring so you won't need a special Alde one.

 

Make sure you clean the pipe up well and if  its rusty give it an anti- rust paint treatment and allow to dry before reassembing.

This is what the curved pipe at the bottom of the header tank looks like after removal of the tank (it that is of use to you). On spare cabinet that lives in the garage to provide spares.

[Opener]

On 10/05/2021 at 16:07, David Mack said:

I will have an Alde 2928 (I think) coming out soon if that is any help.

Apologies - can I hijack this theme slightly - although this may be of interest to the OP as well (Sorry!!).

Has anyone out there given up an an Alde upright, removed it and gone for an alternative/substitute? What did you end up with? Where did you put it? How much disruption to existing fittings etc? A broad idea of the eventual cost?

Ours is used solely for water heating as required - maybe twice a day. It is hooked up to a 'heating' system but this comprises finned rads enclosed in vented boxing up one side of the boat but you have to feel the vents to work out if it is on or not. They could come out 'cos we are quite happy with a dual fuel stove when required. The Alde itself fails at the beginning of each season and is living on borrowed time!!

Cheers, guys!

[Opener]

On 10/05/2021 at 20:59, droshky said:

 

I gather we’d need a new chimney arrangement (bigger hole? New pipe?). If it’s alright with you Tony, another photo coming for retransmission at your convenience... or from the kitchen if you prefer!

 

 

This is what the sticky-out bit looks like - other colours are available:

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, Opener said:

Has anyone out there given up an an Alde upright, removed it and gone for an alternative/substitute?

 

Not personnally, but a boat moored next to us did.

 

Stripped out the high thin cupboard of all Alde componets and made it into a wardrobe, cutlery drawers etc etc.

The Alde was replaced by a SF stove with a backboiler with the water piping simply routed to the new SF stove.

 

I don't know the cost but they said they saved a fortune when compared to using up to 2 gas cylinders (£60) per week in the Winter as it was the sole form of heating.

 

I believe that others with an Alde only use it as a 'secondary' source to save the hassle of lighting a stove, so it gets minimal use and uses minimal gas.

[Opener]

36 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Not personnally, but a boat moored next to us did.

 

Stripped out the high thin cupboard of all Alde componets and made it into a wardrobe, cutlery drawers etc etc.

The Alde was replaced by a SF stove with a backboiler with the water piping simply routed to the new SF stove.

 

I don't know the cost but they said they saved a fortune when compared to using up to 2 gas cylinders (£60) per week in the Winter as it was the sole form of heating.

 

I believe that others with an Alde only use it as a 'secondary' source to save the hassle of lighting a stove, so it gets minimal use and uses minimal gas.

Cheers for that. Yes - ours is very much secondary to the SF stove. I'm always astounded at high gas consumption reports but we get a cauliflowers worth of hot water in around 30-60 mins use. I can always judge when the water is hot enough when the burner starts to cycle on and off. Only replace 13kg cylinder of gas once in a while.

Alde cupboard already packed (as well) with coats and shoes so stripping out would yield minimal extra space ??.

[Alan de Enfield]

19 minutes ago, Opener said:

Cheers for that. Yes - ours is very much secondary to the SF stove. I'm always astounded at high gas consumption reports but we get a cauliflowers worth of hot water in around 30-60 mins use. I can always judge when the water is hot enough when the burner starts to cycle on and off. Only replace 13kg cylinder of gas once in a while.

 

I guess it depends on if the Alde is used to 'power' the central heating so the burners are almost continually running trying to keep the radiator water up to temperature, as the radiators are trying to lose heat and heat the room.

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I guess it depends on if the Alde is used to 'power' the central heating so the burners are almost continually running trying to keep the radiator water up to temperature, as the radiators are trying to lose heat and heat the room.

 

According to Alde it also depends upon where you set the boiler temperature knob with many people complaining about excess gas consumption running it on the highest setting. I was reading something by one of our members on the other place (I think) about outside temperature monitoring that  seemed to indicate this may well be true.

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, Tony Brooks said:

 

According to Alde it also depends upon where you set the boiler temperature knob with many people complaining about excess gas consumption running it on the highest setting. I was reading something by one of our members on the other place (I think) about outside temperature monitoring that  seemed to indicate this may well be true.

 

I'm sure you are correct, but the couple in question (he was handicapped and she was in late stages of Cancer) were always cold and tried to keep warm by turning up the temperatures.

They had the SF stove fitted and they were able to keep comfortably warm, so for them whilst the expense was a major factor, the fact of being able to keep warm enough was probably the most important.

 

All my personal experience of heating has been either SF or diesel (or both)

[droshky]

We’re in a different position from most of you in having an air cooled Lister, so needing a hot water source. We normally minimise the heating to a quick blast to take the chill off when we arrive, turning rads off and using SF afterwards. Recently the glass window cracked on our little Boatman stove, so pending getting a new glass we temporarily used the Alde for heating rather more, which may have shortened its useful life.

 

So normally once we’ve arrived, it’s just to heat up the water for showers and maybe washing up as well. Not living aboard, it’s worked quite well. Not economic for most liveaboards of course.

[Tony Brooks]

If you can get enough access to the top of the boiler to locate the leak then you MIGHT be ale to effect a temporary repair because its going to need replacing fairly soon.

 

First you must get the whole area dry.

 

If its a rust pinhole then try putting a small self tapper into it with plenty of silicon around the thread and a plastic or rubber pad under the head.

 

If its not a pinhole or the self tapper does not seal the leak then you will need to clean all the rust and paint off and abrade the metal to give a key. I would use coarse emery paper. Then apply some form of metal putty or filler. Maybe Eilliput, epoxy marine filler, plastic metal, Belzona etc. but chech the are said to work with hot water.

 

Give it lots of time to set (at least  overnight) and pray as you refill it.

 

 

 

 

[droshky]

Thanks for that Tony.

 

Tbh, I think time spent on the existing unit is unlikely to be well spent. Even when cold and not under pressure, there’s a steady trickle of fluid out of the joint. I suppose I could siphon out the expansion tank, and wait for what’s in the pipe work to trickle out, but that might take days, and the fluid would still be lapping against the leak, making it difficult for repair material to set. I suppose there’s a drain plug or tap, but even then any repairs would be hit and miss, and subject to heat and pressure when the system fires up again.

 

Given David’s kind offer, and that we don’t live on board or nearby, I think my efforts are better spent getting the replacement installed...and hoping for the best!

 

but thanks again for all your tips