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Alde 2920 leaking fluid


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Hi all,

 

our ancient boiler (2nd hand!) is trickling fluid out too fast for use. The expansion tank is nearly empty from full after an hour or two. We can boil water on the hob for washing up, but I get a bit rank after a few days without a shower, so need to fix this!

 

The usual culprit is the expansion tank, and the leak is certainly high up. But the exp tank seems dry. The damp area (after wiping everything dry) starts swiftly on the top of the boiler, and seems to come out of the joint with the flue, which goes up the middle of the boiler, before spreading around the top of the boiler and dripping down it.

 

Could I be right that the heat has cracked this joint? And is this a terminal fault? Not living aboard, this heater quite suits us, and full replacement is arms and legs. But I’m informed that no professional will touch these now, except to remove.

 

Suggestions?

 

Dave

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I think I am right in saying those Aldes have a steel heat exchanger/boiler so if you are sure the sealing between header tank and boiler is good I would suspect rust  has done its worst.

 

Probably time to talk seriously to David.

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I can't guarantee mine is leak free - the system did need topping up every year, but I think that is more likely something to do with the radiator connection which had a seriously misaligned pipe permanently encrusted with lime scale deposits, despite a couple of attempts at resealing. But no rust stains on the boiler itself as far as I am aware.

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So you’re saying, Tony, that such rust damage is curtains for the boiler, no sticking plaster jobs?
Yes I’m pretty sure the boiler connection is dry... the big (1””?) nut at the bottom of the expansion tank, yeah?

Thanks David I am interested. I should say that that’s exactly what we did before. Now in all fairness it lasted about 3 years but these are all old machines now and might last much less long. Also I don’t feel competent to fit it myself, tho I might do with help!

 

Thanks both for lightning replies

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David,

 

Topping up every year doesn’t sound too bad, better than every hour! Our rads seem fine, it’s just the boiler. How much was this one being used, regularly most of the the year?
 

Also, you know anything about the comment I got from a boatyard that “we can’t touch those anymore, only the owner can”... I forget the word he used, something about ??room insulated?? I had the impression it was to do with the air intake or exhaust output, something like that.

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11 minutes ago, droshky said:

So you’re saying, Tony, that such rust damage is curtains for the boiler, no sticking plaster jobs?
Yes I’m pretty sure the boiler connection is dry... the big (1””?) nut at the bottom of the expansion tank, yeah?

Thanks David I am interested. I should say that that’s exactly what we did before. Now in all fairness it lasted about 3 years but these are all old machines now and might last much less long. Also I don’t feel competent to fit it myself, tho I might do with help!

 

Thanks both for lightning replies

 

As I had a 2928 I can't be sure exactly how the 2920 is out together. Let's have a photo of the leak and surrounding area so we all know what you are talking about.  If you say you have a large nut and as far as I know the expansion tank is plastic the plastic to steel with a nut suggest to me that there is a rubber seal in the joint that might have split or gone hard with old age. It all depends upon exactly where the leak is.

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8 minutes ago, droshky said:

David,

 

Topping up every year doesn’t sound too bad, better than every hour! Our rads seem fine, it’s just the boiler. How much was this one being used, regularly most of the the year?
 

Also, you know anything about the comment I got from a boatyard that “we can’t touch those anymore, only the owner can”... I forget the word he used, something about ??room insulated?? I had the impression it was to do with the air intake or exhaust output, something like that.

 

I think yours is not room sealed so if a Gassafe engineer got to it they would have to cap the gas supply and condemn it. The 2928 is room sealed but it would need the proper roof terminal to provide the exhaust gasses out and the combustion air in facility. So you understood correctly. Room Sealed is the term. The combustion air and exhaust are kept out of the accommodation.

 

There is a conflict between the BSS and gas regulations for dwellings. To work on gas in dwellings (probably including live-aboard boats) you need to be Gassafe registered. To work on a holiday boat you only need to be competent so as long as you are not getting paid for the work so DIY is allowed. However what you are describing does not seem like gas work to me.

Edited by Tony Brooks
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16 minutes ago, droshky said:

Also, you know anything about the comment I got from a boatyard that “we can’t touch those anymore, only the owner can”... I forget the word he used, something about ??room insulated?? I had the impression it was to do with the air intake or exhaust output, something like that.

 

 

Room Sealed.

 

There is all sorts of (alleged / apparent) legislation and of course the GDPR gas regulations for liveaboards.

The BSS has allowed non-room sealed water heaters as there were no alternatives, but that is (I understand) under review now that there are a number of room-sealed water heaters on the market.

 

My understanding is that Non-room sealed heaters are not allowed in bedrooms or bathrooms aor rooms adjacent to either if their is an 'air-path' between the two, or installed into a cupboard adjacent to either a bedroom or bathroom.

Its all beyond my simple brain.

 

There seems to be a general tightening on the implimentation of rules and regulations - a newby started a thread the other day regarding a broker who would not sell / handle a boat as it had no RCD paperwork.

 

Times are a changing.

 

Edit to add an extract from the regulations :

 

Room-sealed appliances 30.—

(1) No person shall install a gas appliance in a room used or intended to be used as a bathroom or a shower room unless it is a room-sealed appliance.

 

(2) No person shall install a gas fire, other gas space heater or a gas water heater of more than 14 kilowatt gross heat input in a room used or intended to be used as sleeping accommodation unless the appliance is a room-sealed appliance.

 

(3) No person shall install a gas fire, other gas space heater or a gas water heater of 14 kilowatt gross heat input or less in a room used or intended to be used as sleeping accommodation and no person shall install an instantaneous water heater unless (in each case)—

(a) it is a room-sealed appliance; or

(b) it incorporates a safety control designed to shut down the appliance before there is a build up of a dangerous quantity of the products of combustion in the room concerned.

 

(4) The references in paragraphs (1) to (3) to a room used or intended to be used for the purpose therein referred to includes a reference to—

(a) a cupboard or compartment within such a room; or

(b) a cupboard, compartment or space adjacent to such a room if there is an air vent from the cupboard, compartment or space into such a room.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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Just found an exploded parts list for a 2920  and it looks as if there are indeed a rubber seal inside that 1"? nut.

 

It looks as if the porcedure will be:

 

Remove the motor and pump and tuck out of the way.

Remove the horizontal hot water out connection on the neat exchanger. I think its a rubber hose.

Undo the large nut and push down the steel tube that its around. At thispoint I think that you will see the seals and backing washer.

 

I don't think there are any screws securing the expansion tank to the body of the heater but have a very good look.

 

Firmly pull the expansion tank upwards while gently twisting it back and forth.

 

I suspect the actual seal might just be a fat O ring so you won't need a special Alde one.

 

Make sure you clean the pipe up well and if  its rusty give it an anti- rust paint treatment and allow to dry before reassembing.

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So... pretty sure ours is a 2920. It says on the rear of the front panel and on the plate behind the controls model 2920 or 2921, for our purposes I don’t think it matters which.

 

Yes Tony we have had that seal go in the past. But the water is stone cold, there’s no pressure in the system, the expansion tank feels dry as far as I can reach and there’s still a trickle apparently from the tank/flue joint, so I’m pretty sure that’s where it’s coming from.

 

Room sealed! Correction to me! Ok so the 2928, if you’re right that’s what it is, is balanced flue which includes room sealed, thus an improvement on what we have and can be touched by a pro.

 

Fixing a water leak wouldn’t be gas work, but if Tony is right and it’s most likely terminal (to the boiler) rust, then we’re looking at a replacement unit which would be.

 

And finally, fwiw, we’re in Sawley waiting for the red to turn to green, take no chances here, y’see, and proceed up the T&M, where’s David?

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Thanks for all that work tony, our messages crossed! No I really don’t think it’s coming from there. It’s bone dry and the top of the tank behind it is continuously damp. 
 

Sorry guys, forgot about photos here they are... looks like I have to send one separately. Anyway, front on, side on and close up of expansion tank but and behind it, top of boiler 

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I think the flue goes up through the boiler so if it is leaking from where the flue exits the large diameter boiler we would seem to be back to a cracked weld or rust, especially as the images seemed to show its likely you would get an air bubble across the top of the boiler.

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Yes that sounds like what I’m looking at. Still struggling with the photos. I’ve made them fewer gb or whatever but now I can’t put them anywhere canalworld can find them, aaargh thank you apple making everything so simple ? 

Oh, can you see the photos??? I can’t!!

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Computer...well smartphone incompetence! If for example david would like to see the photos (and can’t already), I’ve emailed them to myself to reduce the bytes, but now can’t attach them!

 

Homer Simpson

Edited by droshky
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22 minutes ago, droshky said:

Yes that sounds like what I’m looking at. Still struggling with the photos. I’ve made them fewer gb or whatever but now I can’t put them anywhere canalworld can find them, aaargh thank you apple making everything so simple ? 

Oh, can you see the photos??? I can’t!!

 

Make sure they are JPGs, not the weirs Apple format. Save them on your device then open Canalworld and got to this topic's reply box.

 

At the bottom of the box you will see "Drag files here to attach, or choose files"

 

Click on choose files and your device should open a window that allows you to navigate to  the files. Click on one file and click the "ok" button or whatever Apple calls it and it should get place din your answer.

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That top weld is where they often go...they corrode there I think due to oxygen/water/poss flue gas mix as well as possibly some galvanic action between the flue/water jacket. They can be welded but Ive replaced the whole heat exchanger unit as the unit has to be stripped to get to the weld but that was when they are available...now they arent you might look at welding a patch but you also might find other thin points. You could also try Graham Cutmore to see if he has any parts. I would take david up on his offer...I swapped a 2920 for a 2928..you need the terminal flue from the roof and make the hole in the roof bigger.....the wiring might also need changing as they need a 12v supply for the ignitor as well as the thermostat cable which is basically a switch in a loop from the boiler in a 2928...in a 2920 it can be a switched feed to the pump.

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Yes immediately delete your email address form the forum or you will get spammed for ever more. If you   email them to me (my address is in the public domain) and I will crunch them if necessary and put them on for you. Tony@tb-training.co.uk

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Yes that seems sensible, thanks. I do pretty much get continuous spam anyway presumably for earlier sins!

 

Apple photos later than 6s are too big. The official apple way is to download their app ( there’s a few million bytes straight off!) and shrink them using it.  emailing to myself was a fix to shrink them myself, but you then can’t save them from email attachment to a location that canalworld can recognise and open...or something!

 

best download the app next time I’m on wifi

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31 minutes ago, droshky said:

Yes that seems sensible, thanks. I do pretty much get continuous spam anyway presumably for earlier sins!

 

Apple photos later than 6s are too big. The official apple way is to download their app ( there’s a few million bytes straight off!) and shrink them using it.  emailing to myself was a fix to shrink them myself, but you then can’t save them from email attachment to a location that canalworld can recognise and open...or something!

 

best download the app next time I’m on wifi

 

 

Get rid of the Apple phone and get a proper Android, much more user friendly (no rip off prices and huge updates every 2 hours)

  • Haha 1
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9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Get rid of the Apple phone and get a proper Android, much more user friendly (no rip off prices and huge updates every 2 hours)

Nowt wrong with an iPhone. I’d never have anything else….I’ve been apple based since 1988 with no regrets at all ! 

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26 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Get rid of the Apple phone and get a proper Android, much more user friendly (no rip off prices and huge updates every 2 hours)

 

On this we can agree. Mrs HN is welded to Apple despite it being obvious Android is superior. Especially if you go for one that has pure Android eg a Google pixel or a Nokia.

 

But the real benefit of Android phones is their affordability. If it wasnt for Android, smartphone ownership would be out of reach to millions of people.

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5 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

On this we can agree. Mrs HN is welded to Apple despite it being obvious Android is superior. Especially if you go for one that has pure Android eg a Google pixel or a Nokia.

 

But the real benefit of Android phones is their affordability. If it wasnt for Android, smartphone ownership would be out of reach to millions of people.

I see your OH has better taste in IT than men….

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