Installing a multifuel back boiler stove

[peterboat]

1 hour ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Have you looked at Boatman Stoves at all? Inexpensive compared with a new squirrel and in some ways a better design. A couple of boating neighbours have had them. It is one I'd seriously consider. http://boatmanstove.co.uk/boatman-stove-new-colour-range

Jen

And it comes with a backboiler if ordered,  I am looking at one now great stove with none of morsos problems 

[Feeby100]

i Just found out I can get a back boiler for my stove I have already I did not know they did one for a hamlet hardy 4 

 

1 hour ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Have you looked at Boatman Stoves at all? Inexpensive compared with a new squirrel and in some ways a better design. A couple of boating neighbours have had them. It is one I'd seriously consider. http://boatmanstove.co.uk/boatman-stove-new-colour-range

Jen

Thanks 

it could be better to buy that boatman one with boiler as price is not far off me buying the boiler on its own for the hardy 

Edited May 9, 2021 by Feeby100

[Jen-in-Wellies]

7 hours ago, Feeby100 said:

Thanks 

it could be better to buy that boatman one with boiler as price is not far off me buying the boiler on its own for the hardy 

And selling your Handy could even put you ahead.

[Feeby100]

The hardy back boiler is 1.2kw would that be powerful for 4 rads ?

This is the one the other was for a different multistove they do

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Feeby100 said:

The hardy back boiler is 1.2kw would that be powerful for 4 rads ?

This is the one the other was for a different multistove they do

 

 

Simply add together the Kw rating of your proposed (or actual) radiators, if it is much more than 1.2Kw then the answer is NO !

[David Mack]

And if you transfer 1.2kW of heat from your stove to the back boiler and then to the radiators, the direct heat output from your stove will go down by a similar amount. So better distribution of heat over the boat, but no more output overall unless you increase the firing of the stove.

[Feeby100]

1 minute ago, David Mack said:

And if you transfer 1.2kW of heat from your stove to the back boiler and then to the radiators, the direct heat output from your stove will go down by a similar amount. So better distribution of heat over the boat, but no more output overall unless you increase the firing of the stove.

Ok thanks it’s for heating while boat so that would work 

14 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Simply add together the Kw rating of your proposed (or actual) radiators, if it is much more than 1.2Kw then the answer is NO !

I am going to change the rads so I have to work that out thanks

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Rather, you want to radiators to be able to dissipate the heat that the back boiler can produce when the stove is going at full chat. So you want the rated power of all your radiators to match, or slightly exceed 1.2kW. If you have too few, or not big enough radiators, then you risk the water in the back boiler actually boiling, which is not a good thing. Exceeding 1.2kW of radiator area just means that each radiator won't be as warm, but overall, they will still give off 1.2kW maximum.

Jen

[Feeby100]

27 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Rather, you want to radiators to be able to dissipate the heat that the back boiler can produce when the stove is going at full chat. So you want the rated power of all your radiators to match, or slightly exceed 1.2kW. If you have too few, or not big enough radiators, then you risk the water in the back boiler actually boiling, which is not a good thing. Exceeding 1.2kW of radiator area just means that each radiator won't be as warm, but overall, they will still give off 1.2kW maximum.

Jen

Thank you

[Feeby100]

I’ve just spoken to an Alde engineer and he said that the 2829 would be no good to run back boiler through because it will burn the thermostat out because it will be heat too much but he said I could just bypassed the boiler with some isolation valves and a separate pump and that will be fine so that’s good news so to run it through the Aldesystem would be a no-no he said

[ditchcrawler]

57 minutes ago, Feeby100 said:

I’ve just spoken to an Alde engineer and he said that the 2829 would be no good to run back boiler through because it will burn the thermostat out because it will be heat too much but he said I could just bypassed the boiler with some isolation valves and a separate pump and that will be fine so that’s good news so to run it through the Aldesystem would be a no-no he said

Are you sure he said burn the thermostat out because its to hot?

[Feeby100]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

Are you sure he said burn the thermostat out because its to hot?

No not sure ha 

he said it would make it damaged to hot

[peterboat]

4 hours ago, Feeby100 said:

I’ve just spoken to an Alde engineer and he said that the 2829 would be no good to run back boiler through because it will burn the thermostat out because it will be heat too much but he said I could just bypassed the boiler with some isolation valves and a separate pump and that will be fine so that’s good news so to run it through the Aldesystem would be a no-no he said

Really? I did it for 5 years with no issues 

[Feeby100]

43 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Really? I did it for 5 years with no issues 

Maybe he was being over Precocious so you just run into the flow and return and run it straight through the boiler without the boiler on just a back boilerPrecocious so you just run into the flow and return and run it straight through the boiler without the boiler on just a back boiler

Did you have a separate pump to circulate it or did you use the pump in the Aide 2829 as you’d have to have the Aide on then

[peterboat]

2 hours ago, Feeby100 said:

Maybe he was being over Precocious so you just run into the flow and return and run it straight through the boiler without the boiler on just a back boilerPrecocious so you just run into the flow and return and run it straight through the boiler without the boiler on just a back boiler

Did you have a separate pump to circulate it or did you use the pump in the Aide 2829 as you’d have to have the Aide on then

Used pump on the Alde it was a long time ago but wasn't hard work and worked well, I will think how I did it and post ok?

[Feeby100]

Thanks 

[Tony Brooks]

19 hours ago, Feeby100 said:

I’ve just spoken to an Alde engineer and he said that the 2829 would be no good to run back boiler through because it will burn the thermostat out because it will be heat too much but he said I could just bypassed the boiler with some isolation valves and a separate pump and that will be fine so that’s good news so to run it through the Aldesystem would be a no-no he said

 

The problem with boat type solid fuel stoves is that they have no thermostatic control so if they run away or are over-fired they will not shut themselves down. This allows the water in the stove to boil and its this why Tracy does not like solid fuel stoves with circulating pumps. It is also the reason Alde say its a bad idea. Boiling water in the Alde header tank may well cause it to distort and jamb the pump. If steam and water spewed out of the top of the Alde header tank I think it stands a ood chance of destroying the pump motor. Personally I doubt it would damage the Alde thermostat or overheat switch. If a solid fuel stove boils the least problem will be near boiling water and steam blowing out of the Alde header tank or is there is no Alde out of the header tank all over the cabin. In the worst case the system could "explode" showering rusty water everywhere.

 

I suspect Peterboat had his Alde in the return from the rads so if the stove had boiled the water to the Alde had a chance to cool a bit.

 

I agree with Tracy that the Alde pump is suspect for such use and as centrifugal pumps like the Alde and most central heating pumps will pass water through without significant restriction when turned off I would fit another circulation pump and probably another header tank at the same height as the Alde one.

 

[ditchcrawler]

5 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

The problem with boat type solid fuel stoves is that they have no thermostatic control so if they run away or are over-fired they will not shut themselves down. This allows the water in the stove to boil and its this why Tracy does not like solid fuel stoves with circulating pumps. It is also the reason Alde say its a bad idea. Boiling water in the Alde header tank may well cause it to distort and jamb the pump. If steam and water spewed out of the top of the Alde header tank I think it stands a ood chance of destroying the pump motor. Personally I doubt it would damage the Alde thermostat or overheat switch. If a solid fuel stove boils the least problem will be near boiling water and steam blowing out of the Alde header tank or is there is no Alde out of the header tank all over the cabin. In the worst case the system could "explode" showering rusty water everywhere.

 

I suspect Peterboat had his Alde in the return from the rads so if the stove had boiled the water to the Alde had a chance to cool a bit.

 

I agree with Tracy that the Alde pump is suspect for such use and as centrifugal pumps like the Alde and most central heating pumps will pass water through without significant restriction when turned off I would fit another circulation pump and probably another header tank at the same height as the Alde one.

 

For the 8 years we owned it our share boat backboiler had its own pump and pumped the water through the Eberspacher and likewise the Eberspacher pumped hot water through the backboiler and pump. When I mentioned this on FB an Eberspacher chap through his hands in the air and said "we are all domed" or words to the effect.

[Tony Brooks]

As far as I can see its only if the stove runs away there may be a problem.

 

I was planning to fit a back boiler to our stove but sold the boat before I got round to it. I planned to take the hot from the Alde (or diesel boiler) into the stove and the rest of the system would have stayed the same. The downside would e that when the stove was not alight it would have robbed heat from the boiler but in with the stove in use any water returning to the Alde would have been cooled in the normal way lessening the chance of a boiler overheat problem.

[Morso_Heaven]

On 09/05/2021 at 21:12, Jen-in-Wellies said:

It looks like the support for the front guard grid that stops the coals touching the door and glass and falling out when the door is open. They are fragile. One of them on mine is broken too. The front guard grid thing also appears to be missing. This slides on to the supports so it can be removed for cleaning ash out. Ask about this guard, or you'll need to buy another as it is important for safety. It should be possible to fabricate a new support for the guard if you are handy.

 

Just noticed something much more important. There appear to be two pieces missing near the top of the front panel, to the left and right of the MORSO text. If so, then this stove is scrap. The top also does not appear to be bolted to the rest, but is just laid on skew wiff. Don't buy it.

Jen

Hi, I have just joined the site. The stove in the picture has expanded and been under so much stress that it has broken the two front lugs, where the bolts connect the front panel to the top. The front panel is indeed scrap and I wouldn't recommend anyone buying such a stove to install, without experience of dismantling and reassembly.

We sell a number of Morso Squirrel's on to canal boats, originally through eBay but as fees have got to such a level now, we try to sell through our website. I feel sure that many of your members will have come across us. If we can be of help, our website is: www.morsoheaven.co.uk

All things Morso and Clearview.

www.morsoheaven.co.uk

[bizzard]

Looks like the usual Morso Hell to me.