Increase in insurance valuation

[cuthound]

1 minute ago, Phoenix_V said:

What are the mechanics of getting a broker valuation for insurance, do people lie and say they are thinking of selling or is there a recognised fee they charge

 

I dont know yet, I'll see what the insurance company requires. If they require a broker valuation, then I will call each broker and ask them how much they charge for one.

[Phoenix_V]

6 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

I dont know yet, I'll see what the insurance company requires. If they require a broker valuation, then I will call each broker and ask them how much they charge for one.

Thanks, let us know please

 

[blackrose]

18 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

If they require a broker to value the boat, I am fortunate in having two close by.

 

 

Does one need to pay a broker for a valuation if one is not actually putting the boat up for sale with that broker, or is the plan not to tell them that? Do brokers provide written valuations and would an insurance company accept a broker's valuation or does it have to be from a qualified surveyor?

 

I can't really see how any valid valuation can be arrived at either by a broker or a surveyor with the boat in the water? 

Edited May 9, 2021 by blackrose

[Phoenix_V]

1 minute ago, blackrose said:

 

 

 

I can't really see how any valid valuation can be arrived at either by a broker or a surveyor with the boat in the water? 

thats easy valuation assumes hull is good

[blackrose]

25 minutes ago, Phoenix_V said:

What are the mechanics of getting a broker valuation for insurance, do people lie and say they are thinking of selling or is there a recognised fee they charge

 

Sorry you'd already asked the same question.

[David Mack]

1 minute ago, blackrose said:

 

I can't really see how any valid valuation can be arrived at either by a broker or a surveyor with the boat in the water?

Presumably the same way that estate agents can value a house without getting out of the car.

[blackrose]

Just now, Phoenix_V said:

thats easy valuation assumes hull is good

 

Ok, but that's a huge assumption.

[Phoenix_V]

Just now, blackrose said:

 

Ok, but that's a huge assumption.

yea but if the insurer are happy to accept that to save you the expense of an out of water survey where is the problem

[cuthound]

1 minute ago, blackrose said:

 

Does one need to pay a broker for a valuation if one is not actually putting the boat up for sale with that broker, or is the plan not to tell them that? Do brokers provide written valuations?

 

I can't really see how any valid valuation can be arrived at either by a broker or a surveyor with the boat in the water? 

 

So how do hundreds of boats sell each year?

I assume it goes like this.

 

1. Boater takes boat to broker, who values it and advertises it.

 

2. Prospective buyer see it and maybe makes an offer, possiblly subject to survey.

 

3. If surveyed and problems found price renegotiated and remedial work undertaken.

 

4. Buyer sails away in his new boat.

 

Many boats sell at point 2 without a survey.

 

 

 

 

[blackrose]

1 minute ago, Phoenix_V said:

yea but if the insurer are happy to accept that to save you the expense of an out of water survey where is the problem

 

It's not a problem for the boat owner, I'm just surprised insurance companies are prepared to make such assumptions. After all if a boat is over 25 or 30 years old most wouldn't.

2 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

So how do hundreds of boats sell each year?

I assume it goes like this.

 

1. Boater takes boat to broker, who values it and advertises it.

 

2. Prospective buyer see it and maybe makes an offer, possiblly subject to survey.

 

3. If surveyed and problems found price renegotiated and remedial work undertaken.

 

4. Buyer sails away in his new boat.

 

Many boats sell at point 2 without a survey.

 

I can't see how this answer is relevant to the questions I asked. You're talking about boat sales, I was talking about boat valuations for insurance purposes.

[Alan de Enfield]

12 minutes ago, blackrose said:

Do brokers provide written valuations and would an insurance company accept a broker's valuation or does it have to be from a qualified surveyor?

 

I would have thought that for such an important detail as valuation that would be paid out in the event of total loss, that 'Fred with a couple of adverts on ebay and calling himself a broker' would not be acceptable.

I would expect that the insurers would insist on a valuation by a member of an accredited organisation who has had some official training and knowlege on the subject.

Alternatively they may have their own 'boat experienced' Loss Adjuster that they insist you use.

 

It'll be interesting to see the response from the insurance company.

[Momac]

21 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

 

I am aware that boat values have increased sharply over tne past year or two.

 

 

 

 

You should insure for the sum it would cost to replace your boat with the nearest equivalent. You will not receive more than the sum insured in the event of a total loss.

 

[Slim]

Any number of views and opinions but has anyone any recent experience of major or total loss claims recently? I don't mean a couple of thousand I mean major or total. Many years ago I had a Drascombe Lugger stolen from a secure sailing club compound with all the appropriate security measured taken. It was a John Elliott build wooden boat that was fairly rare (most were GRP). As such it's value increased over the years. I insured it for a figure in excess of the purchase price. Come the day the insurance company (St Margaret's Insurance) refused to pay out more than the purchase price and even that was after protracted negotiations. To add insult to injury when I approached them to inure my next boat they declined without explanation.

[cuthound]

1 hour ago, blackrose said:

I can't see how this answer is relevant to the questions I asked. You're talking about boat sales, I was talking about boat valuations for insurance purposes.

 

Isn't that the process by which most people get a value to insure their boat, by buying one in the first place?

[Higgs]

2 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

Does one need to pay a broker for a valuation if one is not actually putting the boat up for sale with that broker, or is the plan not to tell them that? Do brokers provide written valuations and would an insurance company accept a broker's valuation or does it have to be from a qualified surveyor?

 

I can't really see how any valid valuation can be arrived at either by a broker or a surveyor with the boat in the water? 

 

I suppose the market valuing doesn't need a surveyor to do that. Whatever the market forces are at any given time will effect a boat's value or worth to someone. For an insurance company you would generally be required to have a valuation carried out by a surveyor with recognised qualifications, specified by the insurance company. It is not really possible to appreciate the value of a boat without a survey; a recent survey, or one carried out at the same time as the valuation, by the same surveyor, ideally. Dry docked. 

 

I'm not sure what value a broker's valuation would be worth, outside of a marketing context. For any buyer, it remains necessary to validate the worth of a valuation, by having a survey carried out. 

 

I would also think that a broker's time is not free. Even a broker's valuation, done properly, takes time. A broker should be able to sniff out a time-waster, and will probably refuse to value a boat, or, if they can be bothered, come up with a figure off the top of their heads.   

 

 

 

Edited May 9, 2021 by Higgs

[peterboat]

Jonny put a value on my boat it pretty much mirrored mine with Craftinsure with luck I will never have to claim 

[blackrose]

3 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

Isn't that the process by which most people get a value to insure their boat, by buying one in the first place?

 

Yes but that's based on a real financial transaction, not an estimation of value.

Edited May 9, 2021 by blackrose

[cuthound]

1 hour ago, blackrose said:

 

Yes but that's based on a real financial transaction, not an estimation of value.

 

But surely what the broker gives you initially is an estimate of value.

[PD1964]

On 08/05/2021 at 15:41, cuthound said:

Thanks everyone.

 

I will contact the insurance company (Towergate) on Monday and ask them what they require for me to increase the value.

 

If they require a broker to value the boat, I am fortunate in having two close by.

 

Hopefully they will allow me to increase the value by £10k without the need for a valuation.

A broker may give you a market valuation but this will probably not be accepted by the insurer as true value.

  When I spoke to the insurance company about increasing my value they mentioned the original builder who is still building and one of their recognised surveyors that was it. The broker is just a broker who can give a market value but not a qualified surveyor who can give a true build value. A broker up North will more then likely value it less then a London broker where area availability/demand is different.

[Cheese]

On 08/05/2021 at 13:15, cuthound said:

I paid £65k in 2014. There is one Kingsground boat of the same age for sale on the Duck at about £60, but it doesnt look as well specified as mine, or to be in such good condition.

I would sell yours, by that one and pocket the £64940, to do it up a bit! ?

[ditchcrawler]

Has anyone actually managed to claim for this extra value they say there boat is or do the insurers just asses what they think the market value was and give you that?

[GUMPY]

1 hour ago, PD1964 said:

A broker may give you a market valuation but this will probably not be accepted by the insurer as true value.

Having spoken to GJW a few weeks ago they are happy to accept a brokers valuation and increase the insured value to that.

 

[PD1964]

28 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Having spoken to GJW a few weeks ago they are happy to accept a brokers valuation and increase the insured value to that.

 

Just told me the builder or surveyor, never mentioned broker, have just increased mine by £10K over purchase price. I will say they were very helpful and fair and would recommend them over my last insurer.

[GUMPY]

55 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

Just told me the builder or surveyor, never mentioned broker, have just increased mine by £10K over purchase price. I will say they were very helpful and fair and would recommend them over my last insurer.

I asked if a broker valuation would be OK and they said yes.

Great insurance company been with them for many years and many boats.

[cuthound]

Job done, easy peasy.

 

I called the insurance company, explained that I wanted to increase the insured value to reflect the fact that secondhand narrowboat prices have increased over the last year.

 

They asked me what I wanted to increase the market value to. I told them, they agreed  and slightly increased the premium and excess.

 

I paid by credit card and await the revised documentation.