Increase in insurance valuation

[cuthound]

Next month my insurance is due.

 

Today I received my renewal notification, which is a couple of pounds less than I paid last year. The insured sum is the same as the amount that I paid for the boat when I bought it in 2014.

 

I am aware that boat values have increased sharply over tne past year or two.

 

Looking on Apollo Duck boats of a similar age and length to mine (60 foot 2007 build, Kingsground fitout on an Alexander hull  in excellent condition, epoxy blacked over Zinger from new and reblacked and repainted in 2019) vary from about £50k to £80k.

 

My question is by what percentage I should increase the insured sum by to reflect the current value?

 

[Jennifer McM]

Just throwing this in..... Car insurance is the cheapest since 2014 due to lockdown - just saying that boats were in lockdown too?

 

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/insurance/car-insurance/

[LadyG]

I put up value £4K in year 1 as I spent that amount.

I put up insurance for year 2, by10 percent, due to market forces, and another 10 for year three 

Premium is still less than £10pcm. Craftinsure.

Edited May 8, 2021 by LadyG

[enigmatic]

7 minutes ago, cuthound said:

Next month my insurance is due.

 

Today I received my renewal notification, which is a couple of pounds less than I paid last year. The insured sum is the same as the amount that I paid for the boat when I bought it in 2014.

 

I am aware that boat values have increased sharply over tne past year or two.

 

Looking on Apollo Duck boats of a similar age and length to mine (60 foot 2007 build, Kingsground fitout on an Alexander hull  in excellent condition, epoxy blacked over Zinger from new and reblacked and repainted in 2019) vary from about £50k to £80k.

 

My question is by what percentage I should increase the insured sum by to reflect the current value?

 

 

 

Difficult to answer a question on percentage increases without knowing what you paid! Sounds like something you could probably justify a 70-80k market valuation for, but you'd pay a lower premium on a 50-60k valuation.

Think you'd be pretty disappointed with any replacement you got for less than 50k if the worst happened in the current market though.

 

[Rob-M]

17 minutes ago, cuthound said:

Next month my insurance is due.

 

Today I received my renewal notification, which is a couple of pounds less than I paid last year. The insured sum is the same as the amount that I paid for the boat when I bought it in 2014.

 

I am aware that boat values have increased sharply over tne past year or two.

 

Looking on Apollo Duck boats of a similar age and length to mine (60 foot 2007 build, Kingsground fitout on an Alexander hull  in excellent condition, epoxy blacked over Zinger from new and reblacked and repainted in 2019) vary from about £50k to £80k.

 

My question is by what percentage I should increase the insured sum by to reflect the current value?

 

You may need to get a survey and valuation to be able to increase the value insured or move to another insurer. There was a thread recently discussing this.

[David Mack]

Your insurers may want a written valuation, especially if you are increasing the value significantly.

[Jo_]

If you are residential/liveaboard, do you have insurance cover on personal effects such as clothes, cameras, mobiles, tablet, laptop? And are these covered away from your boat? I ask because when we had house insurance, that was part of our policy. When I look at boat insurance, I don't see a 'liveaboard' policy - just a boat and equipment and - presumably - fixed parts of the fit-out.

[cuthound]

3 minutes ago, Jo_ said:

If you are residential/liveaboard, do you have insurance cover on personal effects such as clothes, cameras, mobiles, tablet, laptop? And are these covered away from your boat? I ask because when we had house insurance, that was part of our policy. When I look at boat insurance, I don't see a 'liveaboard' policy - just a boat and equipment and - presumably - fixed parts of the fit-out.

 

Not a liveaboard but have £1k cover for personal items on board, plus my house contents insurance covers mobile phone, computing and photographic equipment when outside of the house.

[Jo_]

1 minute ago, cuthound said:

 

Not a liveaboard but have £1k cover for personal items on board, plus my house contents insurance covers mobile phone, computing and photographic equipment when outside of the house.

Yes, that's exactly what we did when we had a house and a boat. Now the boat is our residential address so things have changed.

[cuthound]

21 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

 

 

Difficult to answer a question on percentage increases without knowing what you paid! Sounds like something you could probably justify a 70-80k market valuation for, but you'd pay a lower premium on a 50-60k valuation.

Think you'd be pretty disappointed with any replacement you got for less than 50k if the worst happened in the current market though.

 

 

I paid £65k in 2014. There is one Kingsground boat of the same age for sale on the Duck at about £60, but it doesnt look as well specified as mine, or to be in such good condition.

 

20 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

You may need to get a survey and valuation to be able to increase the value insured or move to another insurer. There was a thread recently discussing this.

 

19 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Your insurers may want a written valuation, especially if you are increasing the value significantly.

 

I will ask at one of the local boatyards for a valuation and then approach my current insurer.

Edited May 8, 2021 by cuthound
Clarification

[Higgs]

15 minutes ago, cuthound said:

I will ask at one of the local boatyards for a valuation and then approach my current insurer.

 

 

If you are seeking some kind of an authoritative valuation, I'd ask the insurance company what that has to be; whether surveyor qualification, or whatever.  

 

 

Edited May 8, 2021 by Higgs

[Tracy D'arth]

Insurance is to restore your condition before the event.  Which is your purchased price.

You cannot better your position with insurance. Increasing your cover on paper does not mean that the insurer will pay that amount.

[cuthound]

13 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Insurance is to restore your condition before the event.  Which is your purchased price.

You cannot better your position with insurance. Increasing your cover on paper does not mean that the insurer will pay that amount.

 

Yes I know that.

 

My concern is that with the recent increase in purchase price, driven by increased demand for secondhand boats, my current valuation will not allow me to purchase a similar boat, should I suffer a total loss.

[Tracy D'arth]

1 minute ago, cuthound said:

 

Yes I know that.

 

My concern is that with the recent increase in purchase price, driven by increased demand for secondhand boats, my current valuation will not allow me to purchase a similar boat, should I suffer a total loss.

That is the way of life, the price increase is counteracted by your earnings increase. Its inflation, it has always been thus. The fact that boat prices have risen faster than inflation is nothing to do with the insurance value

You did not expect  your house to rise in price so quickly as they did in the last 20 years. But house insurance is based on rebuild costs not market prices, not so boats which is why the insurance pro rata is so much less for boats.

[enigmatic]

38 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Insurance is to restore your condition before the event.  Which is your purchased price.

You cannot better your position with insurance. Increasing your cover on paper does not mean that the insurer will pay that amount.

 

Lots of boats are improved at considerable expense beyond original purchase prices though, and the condition is restored by allowing the purchase of a roughly equivalent age/spec/condition replacement, not giving someone some cash they had in 2014.

 

If an insurer offers an "agreed value" policies which entitle owners to a payout of what's stated in the policy for a total loss and is willing to agree that a boat is worth x in the current market, historic bills of sale the insurer hasn't seen are irrelevant.  

 

I mean, I'm sure they flag up people claiming their ancient Springer is worth 100k as being outside the parameters they're willing to insure, but equally they're not insisting that none of them can be insured for more than the four figure fees Sam sold them for.

 

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

If an insurer offers an "agreed value" policies which entitle owners to a payout of what's stated in the policy for a total loss and is willing to agree that a boat is worth x in the current market, historic bills of sale the insurer hasn't seen are irrelevant. 

 

 

The letter I have seen (and posted here a number of times) from Lloyds to their syndicates says that from next renewal 'agreed values' are no longer allowed.

We have been 'agreed value' for many years, but this year it was impossible to obtain cover on that basis so have had to settle for 'market value'.

[enigmatic]

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The letter I have seen (and posted here a number of times) from Lloyds to their syndicates says that from next renewal 'agreed values' are no longer allowed.

We have been 'agreed value' for many years, but this year it was impossible to obtain cover on that basis so have had to settle for 'market value'.

Interesting. I haven't seen the letter or when it was issued but had multiple "Agreed Value" quotes in October. GJW still appear to be promoting "agreed fixed value" for narrowboats on their website

 

My bog standard Craftinsure policy gives them the option of paying a fixed sum or replacing my boat with a similar age and type (which probably wouldn't cost them any less, but obviously would if I was silly with my valuation) which I guess is the other standard option.

[GUMPY]

The insurance company I use, GJW, say that a 10% increase can be self declared anything higher requires a written valuation, one from a broker will suffice so no need for a survey.

Hopefully I wil be able to find a friendly broker to do mine before the end of July.

[PD1964]

I have just changed my provider to GJW and asked the same about increasing value from what I paid back in 2009 due to the increase pricing of steel and replacing like for like.

They would only increase the insured value by £10K from what I paid, I was asking to increase by £20K.

 If I wanted to increase by more then £10K I have to have a valuation done by the builder and he had to provide a written valuation which I would have to send to them.

 

  Same as above reply basically, which went on as I was typing?

  

 

Edited May 8, 2021 by PD1964

[cuthound]

Thanks everyone.

 

I will contact the insurance company (Towergate) on Monday and ask them what they require for me to increase the value.

 

If they require a broker to value the boat, I am fortunate in having two close by.

 

Hopefully they will allow me to increase the value by £10k without the need for a valuation.

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

We have been 'agreed value' for many years, but this year it was impossible to obtain cover on that basis so have had to settle for 'market value'.

But 'market value' presumably means the current value, and not the price you may have paid years ago. So as long as someone acceptable to the insurer provides a written estimate of the current value, that should put you in the position of being able to buy an equivalent craft if yours should be a total loss.

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, David Mack said:

But 'market value' presumably means the current value, and not the price you may have paid years ago. So as long as someone acceptable to the insurer provides a written estimate of the current value, that should put you in the position of being able to buy an equivalent craft if yours should be a total loss.

 

 

I'd assume so, but for one-offs it may be difficult to reach an agreement on market value if there is nothing on the market similar, but of course the 'nearest' (lower valued) boat would be used.

[Tonka]

have you not got gap insurance

[cuthound]

12 hours ago, Tonka said:

have you not got gap insurance

 

Actually with increasing boat prices that isn't a bad idea, although insurers might be reluctant to offer it because of the difficulty in valuing burnt out boats.

[Phoenix_V]

17 hours ago, cuthound said:

Thanks everyone.

 

I will contact the insurance company (Towergate) on Monday and ask them what they require for me to increase the value.

 

If they require a broker to value the boat, I am fortunate in having two close by.

 

Hopefully they will allow me to increase the value by £10k without the need for a valuation.

What are the mechanics of getting a broker valuation for insurance, do people lie and say they are thinking of selling or is there a recognised fee they charge