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I am not mechanically minded but wish to learn. Comments and tips welcome, particularly from any Vetus owners. 

 

I am the (proud?) owner of a 2008 Vetus M4.15 marinised Dutch tractor engine with - I am led to believe - the original single 95 amp alternator. 

 

Things I have been told:

 

- Vetus engines are generally reliable

- Vetus engine replacement parts are murderously expensive

- If you want we'll fit a second alternator, for a combined output of 190 amps or splt between starter and domestics (nervous shuffling)

- Double alternators on this engine are a bad idea (different source)

 

Things I have experienced:

 

- Oil change is reletavely easy but there is no drain or inbuilt pump. You have to suck it out through the dipstick hole. 

- There are three fuel filters. A pre-filter, the fuel filter and another little one. 

- Mine (at least) has a header tank for the coolant... it's a bit scummy but lately topped it up with antifreeze and doesn't appear to be loosing fluid. 

- I have had suspected diesel bug but through a regieme of filter changes, tank siphoning, Marine 16, keeping the tank full and eliminating all possible water ingress via the filler cap and vent it appears to have gone away.

 

Questions:

 

- My pre-filter has no drain. Is it a really good idea to fit a version that does to reduce filter changes?

- I get a little bit of water in my engine bilge (not in the compartments to the side of the engine in the engine bay). Maybe a pint a day. The boat is a semi trad with a watertight pram hood. The oil and coolant levels are constant. My theory is this is from condensation off the engine... probable?

- Does painting it yellow make it go faster?

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1 I very much doubt its Dutch, more like Japanese industrial engine (Mitsubishi)

 

2. As reliable as any other modern Jap base engine but they have fitted a less than ideal gearbox in some case.

 

3. Big minus is the cost of Vetus spares but pattern Mitsubishi parts are generally available.

 

4. Water in the side bilge (not the engine drip tray) may be condensation on the hull etc. or a leaking stern gland. You probably have a Vetus packless stern gland and that needs a degree of servicing involving injecting a little special grease into the gland.

 

5. Depends on the make of prefilter. If its the Vetus one discussed a day or so ago servicing is going to cost you big so an alternative make may e afr cheaper.

 

6. Golden paint does not make it go faster but does make the spares cost stupid amounts.

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Last one first.  Makes your money go faster.

Condensation off the swim sides and uxter plate will collect in the bilge.

Are you finding water in the fuel when you change filters? If yes then having a drain on the first filter would be good.

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8 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Last one first.  Makes your money go faster.

Condensation off the swim sides and uxter plate will collect in the bilge.

Are you finding water in the fuel when you change filters? If yes then having a drain on the first filter would be good.

When I was first alerted to the possibility of diesel bug I took samples from the top and bottom of the tank and left them to settle to compare. There was never any seperation to indicate water but the stuff from the bottom of the tank was cloudy/scummy. I subsequently ballasted the boat to one side and drained 10 litres of diesel out of the lowest corner. Then resampled and it all looked good. Not had any issues since but who knows... I've been hitting it with Marine 16 and will repeat the siphoning before I head out next week. 

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19 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

1 I very much doubt its Dutch, more like Japanese industrial engine (Mitsubishi)

 

2. As reliable as any other modern Jap base engine but they have fitted a less than ideal gearbox in some case.

 

3. Big minus is the cost of Vetus spares but pattern Mitsubishi parts are generally available.

 

4. Water in the side bilge (not the engine drip tray) may be condensation on the hull etc. or a leaking stern gland. You probably have a Vetus packless stern gland and that needs a degree of servicing involving injecting a little special grease into the gland.

 

5. Depends on the make of prefilter. If its the Vetus one discussed a day or so ago servicing is going to cost you big so an alternative make may e afr cheaper.

 

6. Golden paint does not make it go faster but does make the spares cost stupid amounts.

The gearbox is a Technodrive TMC 60M and thanks for bringing up the stern gland as I have wondered. There is a seperate compartment under the gearbox and stern gland that has never had water in it so I'm confident it is not leaking (yet). It has been a year and I've had contradicting advice... your comment confirms that the stern gland will need maintenance. Should I change the gearbox oil? There is oil in it, the previous owner has said to use 'ATF'.

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Oh dear, not the best box, tends to clunk into gear.

 

I don't know what oil the Technodrive uses but Vetus have all their manuals online so that will tell you. If the oil is pink its all but certainly ATF. You will find the maintenance instructions for the gland there as well. It would be as well to change the gearbox oil then you will know when it was done.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Oh dear, not the best box, tends to clunk into gear.

 

I don't know what oil the Technodrive uses but Vetus have all their manuals online so that will tell you. If the oil is pink its all but certainly ATF. You will find the maintenance instructions for the gland there as well. It would be as well to change the gearbox oil then you will know when it was done.

 

 

I have printed manuals for both the engine and gear box which appear to be the same as what is available online... both are full of scribbled errata from the previous owner which fills me with confidence! E.g. manual says use SAE 20/30, previous owner says ATF. All the filters are different but I guess that is probably just him suggesting cheaper alternatives. 

 

Yes it does clunk when shifting gear.  When I bought the boat the engine mountings, drive plate and cutlass bearing were all replaced upon the advice of the surveyor. 

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1 minute ago, The Gravy Boater said:

I have printed manuals for both the engine and gear box which appear to be the same as what is available online... both are full of scribbled errata from the previous owner which fills me with confidence! E.g. manual says use SAE 20/30, previous owner says ATF. All the filters are different but I guess that is probably just him suggesting cheaper alternatives. 

 

Yes it does clunk when shifting gear.  When I bought the boat the engine mountings, drive plate and cutlass bearing were all replaced upon the advice of the surveyor. 

 

It is possible that Technodrive changed the gearbox oil specification at some time from engine oil to ATF, PRM certainly did for their mechanical boxes but its just as likely that the previous owner misunderstood something he heard. FWIW I ran a Spanish built mechanical box for 20 years on ATF when the manual said non-multigrade engine oil with no obvious problems. That was what the hire fleet had put in it but I can't tell you its the right thing to do. I  suspect SAE 12 W 30 is more viscous than ATF so it may reduce the clunk.

 

I suspect almost all inland boaters, especially those with Vetus engine, use pattern parts. As long as the filters are reputable makes and properly specified they will be fine.

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I think Vetus was (maybe is) a Dutch company so that is probably where the 'Dutch tractor engine' bit came from. A 95 amp alternator is still quite a powerful thing especially for us brought up with dynamos and ancient electrics so unless you are filling the boat with lots of electrical stuff it will probably be OK for most uses. Electricity can cost a lot, you add a few gizmos and then need more batteries, then you need more charging power, then you buy a bigger fridge, then... well that is what happens. 

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10 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

It is possible that Technodrive changed the gearbox oil specification at some time from engine oil to ATF, PRM certainly did for their mechanical boxes but its just as likely that the previous owner misunderstood something he heard. FWIW I ran a Spanish built mechanical box for 20 years on ATF when the manual said non-multigrade engine oil with no obvious problems. That was what the hire fleet had put in it but I can't tell you its the right thing to do. I  suspect SAE 12 W 30 is more viscous than ATF so it may reduce the clunk.

 

I suspect almost all inland boaters, especially those with Vetus engine, use pattern parts. As long as the filters are reputable makes and properly specified they will be fine.

The main reasom for ATF is temporature as Mechani al boxes have no coooler. Landrover went to atf cos of this.

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Interesting, I remember the "clunk" as a healthy sign.

The cone clutches have to displace the oil before they can fully engage. A more viscous oil takes longer to displace slowing down engagement which can lead to excessive slip, heating and wear.

About a hundred years ago Rolls Royce injected caster oil into the cone clutches used on their vehicles to force a slip and reduce the "clunk".

(a hundred years ago when father was just a twinkle in grandfathers eye)

Edited by Eeyore
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15 hours ago, The Gravy Boater said:

I am the (proud?) owner of a 2008 Vetus M4.15 marinised Dutch tractor engine with - I am led to believe - the original single 95 amp alternator. 

Mitsubishi S4L engine, service parts compatible with S4L2 (i.e M4.15 & M4.17) in reality it's just the oil filter that's Mitsubishi, the fuel filters are bolted on by Vetus.

The alternator is 95amp or 110amp depending on the date of the marketing material. Alternators are rated against a variety of standards, the marketing team just found one that sounded better, same alternator.

Oil change is reletavely easy but there is no drain or inbuilt pump. You have to suck it out through the dipstick hole. 
This is a good thing, less places for it to leak and generally a cleaner job.

Mine (at least) has a header tank for the coolant... it's a bit scummy but lately topped it up with antifreeze and doesn't appear to be loosing fluid. 
Anti freeze has a life based on the corrosion inhibitors it contains. The default was two years, but modern stuff is available with five year life. If scummy equals "looks like oxtail soup" it's way overdue. Drain it down and flush with fresh water to remove any sediment in the keel tanks (assuming it's keel cooled). Premix the antifreeze before refilling.
My pre-filter has no drain. Is it a really good idea to fit a version that does to reduce filter changes?

It's a good idea to have a drain that you can check from time to time. It doesn't affect filter life/change interval as these are based on the filters ability to trap particulates not water.

 

Edited by Eeyore
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16 hours ago, The Gravy Boater said:

When I was first alerted to the possibility of diesel bug I took samples from the top and bottom of the tank and left them to settle to compare. There was never any seperation to indicate water but the stuff from the bottom of the tank was cloudy/scummy. I subsequently ballasted the boat to one side and drained 10 litres of diesel out of the lowest corner. Then resampled and it all looked good. Not had any issues since but who knows... I've been hitting it with Marine 16 and will repeat the siphoning before I head out next week. 

 

Our first boat had that Vetus engine, and we had problems of water in the fuel too. It probably was diesel bug in our case, but I wonder if the engine was at fault? I can't think of a mechanism by which it could water-inject the fuel!

 

I always suspected the flush-fitting fuel cap, but that's another story.

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1 hour ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

Our first boat had that Vetus engine, and we had problems of water in the fuel too. It probably was diesel bug in our case, but I wonder if the engine was at fault? I can't think of a mechanism by which it could water-inject the fuel!

 

I always suspected the flush-fitting fuel cap, but that's another story.

 

No it's not. They are well proven sources of water ingress. I think its change the sealing O ring once a year and keep it dressed with silicon grease or Vaseline.

 

I would never have one from choice on a boat. Although more difficult t source we only used raised fillers on the hire fleet. Water can't run uphill but loves to run downhill.

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  • 1 year later...
On 04/05/2021 at 21:07, Tony Brooks said:

You probably have a Vetus packless stern gland and that needs a degree of servicing involving injecting a little special grease into the gland.

I do... RCR have referred to it as a Vetus Wet Gland.  Still isn't leaking but apparently you are supposed to squirt some silicone into it every couple of years. There is a little orifice that appears to be the spot but my eyesight isn't up to seeing whether it has a cover screw or something.  I'll update this post with a picture from my phone.  Also... what kind of silicone product? I'm assuming it is a rubber seal... I have that Thetford stuff used for cassette toilet seals if that will do.

 

Update:  Looks like an allen key job but I'm not touching anything until the guru has spoken!

 

IMG_20220804_123421163_HDR.jpg

 

 

Edited by The Gravy Boater
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7 hours ago, The Gravy Boater said:

I do... RCR have referred to it as a Vetus Wet Gland.  Still isn't leaking but apparently you are supposed to squirt some silicone into it every couple of years. There is a little orifice that appears to be the spot but my eyesight isn't up to seeing whether it has a cover screw or something.  I'll update this post with a picture from my phone.  Also... what kind of silicone product? I'm assuming it is a rubber seal... I have that Thetford stuff used for cassette toilet seals if that will do.

 

Update:  Looks like an allen key job but I'm not touching anything until the guru has spoken!

 

 

 

 

 

Err, best read the Vetus manual for the gland about servicing. Although many people say it is not required Vetus not only say insert the grease but also say that you should move the gland, so you can clean any scale off the shaft every so many hours. I think it was 200 at first but now might be every 500 or 700 hours.

 

I would not like to say re the grease but I understand the Volvo branded grease s cheaper and does the job.

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19 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Err, best read the Vetus manual for the gland about servicing. Although many people say it is not required Vetus not only say insert the grease but also say that you should move the gland, so you can clean any scale off the shaft every so many hours. I think it was 200 at first but now might be every 500 or 700 hours.

 

I would not like to say re the grease but I understand the Volvo branded grease s cheaper and does the job.

Still trying to find a manual.  Google has failed me so far.  When I bought the boat the engineer at the marina said it was 'silicone' that you need to feed it every 200 hours, another engineer at another marina mentioned the same.

 

I did find this thread:

It hasn't leaked at all so far, so I guess it's not urgent but I have been getting a rubbing sound on the prop shaft (best way I can describe it).  Might just be something on the prop so I'll do a dive on the weed hatch tomorrow.  The boat will be out for blacking in October so while you are supposed to be able to lubricate it in the water, maybe it would be best to wait and have it all apart then.

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43 minutes ago, The Gravy Boater said:

The boat will be out for blacking in October so while you are supposed to be able to lubricate it in the water, maybe it would be best to wait and have it all apart then.

You don't need to have it all apart. You remove the allen screw, then screw the tube of grease into the hole, squeeze the tube to inject some grease, then replace the allen screw.

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1 minute ago, David Mack said:

You don't need to have it all apart. You remove the allen screw, then screw the tube of grease into the hole, squeeze the tube to inject some grease, then replace the allen screw.

That's good to know.  I'm confused about the whole grease/silicone thing because I've heard different things from different sources.  What do I need to use?

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1 hour ago, The Gravy Boater said:

Still trying to find a manual.  Google has failed me so far.  When I bought the boat the engineer at the marina said it was 'silicone' that you need to feed it every 200 hours, another engineer at another marina mentioned the same.

 

I did find this thread:

It hasn't leaked at all so far, so I guess it's not urgent but I have been getting a rubbing sound on the prop shaft (best way I can describe it).  Might just be something on the prop so I'll do a dive on the weed hatch tomorrow.  The boat will be out for blacking in October so while you are supposed to be able to lubricate it in the water, maybe it would be best to wait and have it all apart then.

 

Here is the Vetus manual for on particular gland https://vetus.com/cms/wp-content/uploads/030310.03-r01-2017-08-Schroefasafdichting-60mm.pdf

 

Which says:

Maintenance
The following maintenance must be performed
after every 200 hours of operation or once a year
while the ship is on dry dock:
Loosen the bolts which attach the shaft seal
to the inner bearing.
Clean the surface of the deal rims where it
touches the shaft so that it is free of grease,
dirt and residue.
Check whether the rim of the seal is not visi-
bly damaged, and replace the shaft seal if it is.
Article code for replacement:
- ‘ZWB60RES’ for ø 60mm propeller shaft.
Lubricate the shaft and the exposed seal rim.
Reattach the shaft seal onto the inner bear-
ing, tightening the bolts to about 10 Nm.
Fill the seal with clean grease, refer to
Installation, point 10 A.
Check the shaft seal and all connections for
leakage immediately after launching.

Maintenance
The following maintenance must be performed
after every 200 hours of operation or once a year
while the ship is on dry dock:
Loosen the bolts which attach the shaft seal
to the inner bearing.
Clean the surface of the deal rims where it
touches the shaft so that it is free of grease,
dirt and residue.
Check whether the rim of the seal is not visi-
bly damaged, and replace the shaft seal if it is.
Article code for replacement:
- ‘ZWB60RES’ for ø 60mm propeller shaft.
Lubricate the shaft and the exposed seal rim.
Reattach the shaft seal onto the inner bear-
ing, tightening the bolts to about 10 Nm.
Fill the seal with clean grease, refer to
Installation, point 10 A.
Check the shaft seal and all connections for
leakage immediately after launching.

 

Exactly what they say varies by gland but note the bit about cleaning the shaft in addition to applying the grease.

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On 17/08/2022 at 18:39, Tony Brooks said:

 

Here is the Vetus manual for on particular gland https://vetus.com/cms/wp-content/uploads/030310.03-r01-2017-08-Schroefasafdichting-60mm.pdf

 

Which says:

Maintenance
The following maintenance must be performed
after every 200 hours of operation or once a year
while the ship is on dry dock:

 

 

You can do it with the boat in the water too. Undo the 3 allen key bolts and gently slide the front of the bronze housing up the shaft taking care not to break the gasket as you do so. If half the gasket sticks to one side of the housing and one half to the other STOP! Make sure the gasket stays on one side or the other.

 

Water will come in at a rate of about a litre a minute so make sure your bilge pump is working before you start. But you should only end up with a few litres of water in the boat if you have everything ready beforehand. 

 

Gently clean the seal as described. The water ingress should actually help flush any crap out. Put a load of plumbers silicone grease around the seal, shaft and the inside of the front of the bronze housing and quickly screw the housing back on. Make sure it is tightened evenly. 

 

I've done this a couple of times and it allows you to get more silicone grease into the gland than just undoing that top screw and trying to inject it through a tiny screw hole.

 

Get the silicone grease on eBay. You want the thick stuff. 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124537422178?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=j1ZRX0TUT4a&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=SV_sF0T7SiS&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

Other brands are available. 

Edited by blackrose
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14 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

You can do it with the boat in the water too. Undo the 3 allen key bolts and gently slide the front of the bronze housing up the shaft taking care not to break the gasket as you do so. If half the gasket sticks to one side of the housing and one half to the other STOP! Make sure the gasket stays on one side or the other.

 

Water will come in at a rate of about a litre a minute so make sure your bilge pump is working before you start. But you should only end up with a few litres of water in the boat if you have everything ready beforehand. 

 

Gently clean the seal as described. The water ingress should actually help flush any crap out. Put a load of plumbers silicone grease around the seal, shaft and the inside of the front of the bronze housing and quickly screw the housing back on. Make sure it is tightened evenly. 

 

I've done this a couple of times and it allows you to get more silicone grease into the gland than just undoing that top screw and trying to inject it through a tiny screw hole.

 

Get the silicone grease on eBay. You want the thick stuff. 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124537422178?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=j1ZRX0TUT4a&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=SV_sF0T7SiS&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

Other brands are available. 

Thanks matey

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