Jump to content

Interesting video on Runcorn development plan


rgreg

Featured Posts

Watched that last night too.

 

Its an ambitious project, especially as it incorporates an inclined boat lift. It would be good if they could pull it off though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, The Happy Nomad said:

Watched that last night too.

 

Its an ambitious project, especially as it incorporates an inclined boat lift. It would be good if they could pull it off though.

This was discussed in a previous thread. The boat lift is a pointless extravagance which will probably kill the project. With the road across the top lock now gone, there isn't much in the way of restoring the original locks. The new lift will be much more expensive to construct and to run.

Note that Anderton lift is going to be closed for a lengthy period for refurbishment and upgrading of its control system just 20 years after it was reopened.

The Foxton Inclined Plane people have concluded that they can't make a case for full restoration, as has long been planned, as the cost of complying with modern safety rules is unaffordable. Why should Runcorn be any different?

How many lock flights require major work after 20 years?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, David Mack said:

This was discussed in a previous thread. The boat lift is a pointless extravagance which will probably kill the project. With the road across the top lock now gone, there isn't much in the way of restoring the original locks. The new lift will be much more expensive to construct and to run.

Note that Anderton lift is going to be closed for a lengthy period for refurbishment and upgrading of its control system just 20 years after it was reopened.

The Foxton Inclined Plane people have concluded that they can't make a case for full restoration, as has long been planned, as the cost of complying with modern safety rules is unaffordable. Why should Runcorn be any different?

How many lock flights require major work after 20 years?

Isn't this the in thing to draw the crows to use the tea stop etc. I wonder how much C&RT make from the trip boat going up and down the lift

 

Edited by ditchcrawler
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

The biggest hurdle will be getting agreement from the Ship canal IMO at the bottom

 

I have to admit that was my concern too - unless they waive their requirements and basically do assisted passage through to the side lock then a lot of people are not going to do this trip.

 

 

2 hours ago, David Mack said:

This was discussed in a previous thread. The boat lift is a pointless extravagance which will probably kill the project. With the road across the top lock now gone, there isn't much in the way of restoring the original locks. The new lift will be much more expensive to construct and to run.

Note that Anderton lift is going to be closed for a lengthy period for refurbishment and upgrading of its control system just 20 years after it was reopened.

The Foxton Inclined Plane people have concluded that they can't make a case for full restoration, as has long been planned, as the cost of complying with modern safety rules is unaffordable. Why should Runcorn be any different?

How many lock flights require major work after 20 years?

 

I must admit when I heard that they wanted a lift and an inclined plane I did think it was a rather crazy solution - I can understand the marina bit but the rest, especially when the line is basically clear, does seem to be all for the "let's attract tourist" wow factor rather than being practical.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We were part of an IWA group which visited  Runcorn and had a guided tour of the site last year.  They said that they would have no chance of getting funding just for renovating locks which was why a boat lift etc is planned. I raised the fact that the biggest problem might be getting Peel to agree access to the MSC for boats to cruise to Marsh lock and I was told that they had had talks with Peel and they didn't anticipate a problem. In view of peels attitude to narrow boats using the MSC at present I found this hard to believe bit I don't think the point was taken ?. I also put my concerns in writing.

 

Haggis

 

 

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I remain very cynical about this scheme.

It is not just about the tourists ( in Runcorn??).  The whole thing needs some political pizzazz about it in order to get some momentum.  That is one reason the white elephant of a lift has been included.

Another is  an engineering consultant "showing off" its creativity a little and simultaneously positioning itself for some future work in the lift design stage.  This is much more valuable than the engineering work for reinstating a few near identical locks might be.

 

As with all these things, no one has yet said where the real  money will come from for post opening upkeep.  A modern lift will be complex, in order to be failure safe,  and inevitably cost a lot of mooolah to keep operational.  Either boat passages will be prohibitively expensive, after the novelty fades, or a rich fairy godmother is needed. Neither CRT nor Peel L&P are likely to be that fairy.

N

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, cuthound said:

 

I'd rather see the Lichfield & Hatherton canals restoration finished first.

 

That is one that really is worth rooting for  - putting those canals back into the network will really add a lot.

  • Greenie 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

The biggest hurdle will be getting agreement from the Ship canal IMO at the bottom

Shame there's no possibility of reopening the Runcorn and Weston Canal!

 

 

9 hours ago, haggis said:

They said that they would have no chance of getting funding just for renovating locks which was why a boat lift etc is planned.

 

Well you either have to raise a certain sum of money to restore the locks or you have to raise a MUCH larger sum to build a boat lift (let alone operate it)! It doesn't follow that the latter approach will be an easier road to go down.

Restoration of the locks also lends itself to a significant volunteer input, the value of which counts as the match funding that grant giving bodies want to see. A boat lift solution would necessarily require full professional design and contractor construction.

Edited by David Mack
  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, David Mack said:

Shame there's no possibility of reopening the Runcorn and Weston Canal!

 

 

 

Well you either have to raise a certain sum of money to restore the locks or you have to raise a MUCH larger sum to build a boat lift (let alone operate it)! It doesn't follow that the latter approach will be an easier road to go down.

Restoration of the locks also lends itself to a significant volunteer input, the value of which counts as the match funding that grant giving bodies want to see. A boat lift solution would necessarily require full professional design and contractor construction.

 

They do seem to be creating engineering solutions for problems that don't actually exist.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, StephenA said:

 

They do seem to be creating engineering solutions for problems that don't actually exist.

Depends on what you consider 'the problem' to be. It seemed to me to be clear that the Trust are primarily focussed on the regeneration of Runcorn not a canal restoration. They have taken advantage of the existence of the canals to enable a very different project which aims to attract many more people to gongoozle than actually to navigate. In the process they expect to generate significant income for the are and an enhanced reputation for a town that has, especially since Stanley Holloway, not always enjoyed the best of reports!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

Depends on what you consider 'the problem' to be. It seemed to me to be clear that the Trust are primarily focussed on the regeneration of Runcorn not a canal restoration. They have taken advantage of the existence of the canals to enable a very different project which aims to attract many more people to gongoozle than actually to navigate. In the process they expect to generate significant income for the are and an enhanced reputation for a town that has, especially since Stanley Holloway, not always enjoyed the best of reports!

 

I'm not really sure building two complex engineering structures which will be expensive to run and maintain is the best way to regenerate Runcorn. My worry is that what we'll end up with is two Thurlwood Steel Locks and no navigable canal

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 26/04/2021 at 18:38, StephenA said:

 

I'm not really sure building two complex engineering structures which will be expensive to run and maintain is the best way to regenerate Runcorn. My worry is that what we'll end up with is two Thurlwood Steel Locks and no navigable canal

But we will never know unless someone gives it a go. The Duke of Bridgwater was taking a bit of a punt when he first tried canals as a means of commercial transport.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

But we will never know unless someone gives it a go. The Duke of Bridgwater was taking a bit of a punt when he first tried canals as a means of commercial transport.

Hardly 'taking a punt' given that the A&CN, Don Navigation, M&IN, Douglas Navigation and Weaver Navigation were all operating pretty effectively. The Duke's initial plans were just an extension of his operation of the mine at Worsley, with the extension of the canal to Runcorn being an addition to his earlier scheme as a way of taking traffic from the M&IN. He had also visited the Canal du Midi and studied current technology at Lyons while on his Grand Tour, so he had a pretty good notion of what he was doing. 

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Mike Todd said:

But we will never know unless someone gives it a go. The Duke of Bridgwater was taking a bit of a punt when he first tried canals as a means of commercial transport.

Thurlwood Steel Lock as mentioned in the post you quoted.

Anderton Lift, which has been rebuilt completely twice in its life and is now due for a refurb.

Foxton Inclined Plane which proved uneconomic when first built and which would now be too difficult and expensive to operate safely, so will now not be fully restored.

And that's just a few UK examples.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, David Mack said:

Thurlwood Steel Lock as mentioned in the post you quoted.

Anderton Lift, which has been rebuilt completely twice in its life and is now due for a refurb.

Foxton Inclined Plane which proved uneconomic when first built and which would now be too difficult and expensive to operate safely, so will now not be fully restored.

And that's just a few UK examples.

Falkirk Wheel?

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Falkirk Wheel was the reason why the £85million Millennium Link project won approval for Lottery money.    There was a long period of negotiation with funders, including European Regional Development Funds for both east and west of Scotland, but the feedback from the Lottery was that just restoring two closed canals alone was not innovative enough.  It was the wheel that clinched it.    So maybe the Runcorn promoters are thinking along similar lines.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.