springy Posted April 22, 2021 Report Share Posted April 22, 2021 I found this earlier today :- springy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray T Posted April 22, 2021 Report Share Posted April 22, 2021 (edited) Er yes, for one, Gifford was a "tar" boat. Article from Waterways World May 1978. Edited April 22, 2021 by Ray T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mack Posted April 22, 2021 Report Share Posted April 22, 2021 Not as bad as some. Somewhere I have a birthday card showing a pair of loaded boats towing on a long line, with the front boat entering a tunnel. But they are both butties! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek R. Posted April 22, 2021 Report Share Posted April 22, 2021 Horse boats working in pairs? Tug already in the tunnel? But yes, there are some howlers about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave moore Posted April 22, 2021 Report Share Posted April 22, 2021 Back in the day, Claytons boats were known as gas boats because they often loaded at gasworks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray T Posted April 22, 2021 Report Share Posted April 22, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, dave moore said: Back in the day, Claytons boats were known as gas boats because they often loaded at gasworks. Wasn't it "gas tar" as well as other fluids they carried? Edited April 22, 2021 by Ray T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
springy Posted April 22, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2021 AIUI Claytons main cargoes were crude tar from a variety of midlands gas works to the tar distilleries; and lubricating oil or fuel oil from Stanlow to the shell depot in Oldbury. There were less frequent cargoes of "gas water" also known as ammoniacal liquor from the various gas works - this was water used to scrub the gas, removing ammonia, which resulted in a product which could be used as a high nitrogen fertiliser and probably a variety of chemical processes. I believe there were also bulk cargoes of the tar distilleries products - particularly creosote to the London area both for the railway companies and GPO Telephone poles. springy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave moore Posted April 22, 2021 Report Share Posted April 22, 2021 I was around when Clayton’s finished in 1966, in those days, the boats were known as gas boats by boatmen and us enthusiasts. Whether this coincides with historic correctness I don’t know. I learned the term from young Charlie Atkins who was employed by Clayton’s at the time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek R. Posted April 23, 2021 Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 Gas water, gas tar, creosote - all by-products from a gas works which were served by tanker boats of Claytons. Historic correctness sounds like pedantry to me, and as seems to be typical nowadays - all that counts from people who were neither around at the time nor involved in the working of them. Trust a working man to keep things simple - Gas boats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray T Posted April 23, 2021 Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 Derek I wasn’t being a pedant, just asking a question. As a side, I called them “tar” boats as that is what Mike refers to them as. He did steer a couple of them in his time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartland Posted April 23, 2021 Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 Artistic License, I was wondering about the railway viaduct as well, which seems single track with what looks like a Castle Class on the head of train Chester bound. Talking about Thomas Claytons, Alan Faulkener in his book on Claytons of Oldbury calls the craft gas boats, but I suppose the principal traffic in their craft became fuel oil from Stanlow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hudds Lad Posted April 23, 2021 Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 and yet nobody has mentioned the Heron? something just not right about it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magpie patrick Posted April 23, 2021 Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 So the boat hs clothes over it's tanker deck, the train is wrong line working, the heron is about half scale, and there is rather a lot of marginal vegetation for a cast iron trough... Aside from that, what's wrong with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mack Posted April 23, 2021 Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 The railing alignment is remarkably wiggly. Is it really like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUMPY Posted April 23, 2021 Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 27 minutes ago, David Mack said: The railing alignment is remarkably wiggly. Is it really like that? Not quite as bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray T Posted April 23, 2021 Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, magpie patrick said: So the boat hs clothes over it's tanker deck, the train is wrong line working, the heron is about half scale, and there is rather a lot of marginal vegetation for a cast iron trough... Aside from that, what's wrong with it? Ellum is at an odd angle. Coping stones go the length of the aqueduct in the jigsaw picture. Edited April 23, 2021 by Ray T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek R. Posted April 23, 2021 Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 8 hours ago, Ray T said: Derek I wasn’t being a pedant, just asking a question. As a side, I called them “tar” boats as that is what Mike refers to them as. He did steer a couple of them in his time. Sorry, didn't mean to sound grumpy. Sign of the times. Heron is a bit short in the leg department. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Schweizer Posted April 24, 2021 Report Share Posted April 24, 2021 (edited) On 23/04/2021 at 13:56, Heartland said: Artistic License, I was wondering about the railway viaduct as well, which seems single track with what looks like a Castle Class on the head of train Chester bound. Talking about Thomas Claytons, Alan Faulkener in his book on Claytons of Oldbury calls the craft gas boats, but I suppose the principal traffic in their craft became fuel oil from Stanlow. The Castle loco is perfectly feasible, the GWR had a direct line from Paddington via Birmingham to Chester, and operated a joint line with the LNWR from Chester to Warrington. The GWR ran regular trains through Chester from 1860 until Nationalization. Edited April 24, 2021 by David Schweizer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Pegg Posted April 24, 2021 Report Share Posted April 24, 2021 1 hour ago, David Schweizer said: The Castle loco is perfectly feasible, the GWR had a direct line from Paddington via Birmingham to Chester, and operated a joint line with the LNWR from Chester to Warrington. The GWR ran regular trains through Chester from 1860 until Nationalization. Indeed, and not just feasible but quite possibly accurate for an express train on that route, which has mileposts datumed at Paddington and once went by the fanciful name of the Didcot & Chester line (which is still reflected in the line reference for the section from Didcot to Birmingham). That said the combination of a locomotive that appears to be in BR green livery with a complete rake of GWR designed and liveried coaches suggests the prototype (photograph) used for inspiration is from the preserved era. Whilst it’s a composite image of grander objects than reality would likely have thrown up it’s a lot more accurate than many canal related pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Schweizer Posted April 25, 2021 Report Share Posted April 25, 2021 14 hours ago, Captain Pegg said: Indeed, and not just feasible but quite possibly accurate for an express train on that route, which has mileposts datumed at Paddington and once went by the fanciful name of the Didcot & Chester line (which is still reflected in the line reference for the section from Didcot to Birmingham). That said the combination of a locomotive that appears to be in BR green livery with a complete rake of GWR designed and liveried coaches suggests the prototype (photograph) used for inspiration is from the preserved era. Whilst it’s a composite image of grander objects than reality would likely have thrown up it’s a lot more accurate than many canal related pictures. The Coach livery is correct for the Loco livery. The Western Region used chocolate and cream for its express train coaches from the mid 50's. until the early 1960's. I remember them well on the 4.00pm Paddington to Birminham Express which barrelled through Northolt Junction (now South Ruislip) about 4.15pm each day at something approaching 90mph, always hauled by a King or two Castles. We used to run down from school to the station every day, in the hope that we would "spot" a previously unrecorded Loco. I still have my 1958/59 Ian Allan combined album 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Pegg Posted April 25, 2021 Report Share Posted April 25, 2021 1 hour ago, David Schweizer said: The Coach livery is correct for the Loco livery. The Western Region used chocolate and cream for its express train coaches from the mid 50's. until the early 1960's. I remember them well on the 4.00pm Paddington to Birminham Express which barrelled through Northolt Junction (now South Ruislip) about 4.15pm each day at something approaching 90mph, always hauled by a King or two Castles. We used to run down from school to the station every day, in the hope that we would "spot" a previously unrecorded Loco. I still have my 1958/59 Ian Allan combined album And those would I suspect have been BR MK1 coaches on which versions of pre-Nationalisation colours were adopted for each Region following an initial period of standardised carmine and cream livery. In each case the trim and lining differed from the Grouping company livery. My observation was simply that the rake of coaches look to be GWR designs in GWR livery (and not any later application of BR (WR) colours) and that whatever material the artist used as the base for the train likely dated from the preservation era. While I suspect that BR liveried locomotives did haul rakes of pre-Nationailsation rolling stock in pre-Nationalisation liveries immediately post-Nationalisation I’ll stick with my initial observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athy Posted April 25, 2021 Report Share Posted April 25, 2021 10 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said: standardised carmine and cream livery. So that was the proper name for blood and custard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Pegg Posted April 25, 2021 Report Share Posted April 25, 2021 3 hours ago, Athy said: So that was the proper name for blood and custard. Well I thought so but in checking other sources say crimson lake and cream is the correct description. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek R. Posted April 26, 2021 Report Share Posted April 26, 2021 (edited) Crimson Lake was also used on the Triumph Speed Twin for a while. Didn't come with Custard though . . . Edited April 26, 2021 by Derek R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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