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I know I'm stupid, but...


johnmck

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On 17/04/2021 at 07:56, Higgs said:

 

You took out a whole year's contract. If you did not say to the marina that you intended to stay on, after the yearly term was up, your contract already had an end date, which was written into the yearly contract. The marina is asking you to renew a contract. You shouldn't have to renew it. I would seek advice from a Citizens Advice Bureau. Your end date and notice should be implicit in the contract you had previously taken out. You had already given a 12 month's notice. In my view. Your term of contract ended on the due date; beyond which, you haven't agreed to enter into another, or be obliged to follow the marina's Terms and Conditions. 

 

 

 

 

I agree and it was one of the arguments I used when a Marina I won't name tried the 3 month notice when we wished to leave after our 12 months had expired.

 

This was also after being a moorer for 3 years.  I also told them if they expected me to be a happy customer on leaving and tell people to moor there or indeed come back myself they should not try to invoice me for the extra 3 months.

 

They did not charge me.

 

It is worth challenging any Marina trying to enforce this as strongly as possible and as you say CAB for advice is worthwhile.

Edited by churchward
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Maybe the Marina tries this on everyone, and some pay up without question. I suspect that even if they had not agreed, then if you had left they would not have pursued you as they are probably on dodgy ground. The only problem you may have had is that if you wanted to return at any time they may have said no. Even then, if they had lots of space then they would not bite off their nose to spite their face.

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We had the same when we left our Thames mooring in 2009 after being moored there since 1981. They wanted 3 months notice to be paid, at which point I said "fine I will pay you if you show me a signed contract".

Never heard anymore

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I think the lesson to be learned from this is that it's always better to speak reasonably to people, rather than shout, rant or argue before it becomes necessary. Well done Ali, NHS to the rescue once again!

Edited by manxmike
Name spelled incorrectly
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On 17/04/2021 at 07:56, Higgs said:

"Terms and Conditions".

 

 

Time for a short piece on contract law:

 

Since most radio adverts end with a breathless "Ts & Cs apply", it is worth examining the difference between Terms and Conditions.

term is any provision in a contract and, according to the Sales of Goods Act 1979, terms may be either conditions or warranties.

 

* A condition is a term whose breach entitles aggrieved parties, at their option, to cancel (or "repudiate") the contract".

* A warranty is a term whose breach entitles aggrieved parties to compensatory damages, but gives no right  to cancel.

* Both conditions and warranties may give the claimant the right to damages, provided that the breach caused foreseeable loss.

* If one is not yet sure whether a term is a condition or warranty, it is called an "innominate term" for the time being.

 

At its simplest one may think of terms and conditions as, respectively, major or minor terms.

However, it is more accurate to say that a term will be a condition if its breach denies the plaintiff (claimant) the main benefit of the contract"; whereas a breach of warranty is a minor breach which does NOT substantially deny the main benefit. (Hong Kong Fir Shipping v Kawasaki [1962] )

* An innominate term may prove to be either a condition or warranty once the seriousness of the breach is established.

 

So adverts need only say either "T's apply", or "Cs & Ws apply"!!

 

 

 

Edited by Trevor Lyons
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53 minutes ago, Trevor Lyons said:

 

Time for a short piece on contract law:

 

Since most radio adverts end with a breathless "Ts & Cs apply", it is worth examining the difference between Terms and Conditions.

term is any provision in a contract and, according to the Sales of Goods Act 1979, terms may be either conditions or warranties.

 

* A condition is a term whose breach entitles aggrieved parties, at their option, to cancel (or "repudiate") the contract".

* A warranty is a term whose breach entitles aggrieved parties to compensatory damages, but gives no right  to cancel.

* Both conditions and warranties may give the claimant the right to damages, provided that the breach caused foreseeable loss.

* If one is not yet sure whether a term is a condition or warranty, it is called an "innominate term" for the time being.

 

At its simplest one may think of terms and conditions as, respectively, major or minor terms.

However, it is more accurate to say that a term will be a condition if its breach denies the plaintiff (claimant) the main benefit of the contract"; whereas a breach of warranty is a minor breach which does NOT substantially deny the main benefit. (Hong Kong Fir Shipping v Kawasaki [1962] )

* An innominate term may prove to be either a condition or warranty once the seriousness of the breach is established.

 

So adverts need only say either "T's apply", or "Cs & Ws apply"!!

 

 

 

 

 

And specifically to do with the OP, and I haven't been following the thread closely; provided the OP wasn't on a rolling contract, both the OP and the marina would have a pre-set date for the contract to end, therefore, notice was already written into the contract. No?

 

 

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6 hours ago, Higgs said:

 

 

And specifically to do with the OP, and I haven't been following the thread closely; provided the OP wasn't on a rolling contract, both the OP and the marina would have a pre-set date for the contract to end, therefore, notice was already written into the contract. No?

 

 

That was exactly our understanding. We paid in advance for 12 months mooring, the contract between us ending at the last day of this month. When we informed them we were leaving, they invoked the three month notice clause.  Whilst it is now sorted, it was a salutary lesson.

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22 hours ago, Machpoint005 said:

All correct, but most prudent customers would see "T's and C's apply" and take it to mean "read the small print". 

My main point is that, since a condition is a term, the phrase "Ts & Cs" is tautological.

As far as "small print"goes:

i. the law requires contract terms to be in print large enough to read;

ii. small print, exemptions and exclusions, do not apply unless they are brought to one's notice before or at the time of the contract.

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