I know I'm stupid, but...

[johnmck]

For us, a marina is a secure parking slot, normally over winter. But circumstances change, then add a pandemic!

But we have been somewhat naive. To me, a twelve month contract lasts...

12 months?

So, as our contract with the marina expires at the end of this month, we assumed that we could either leave upon expiry,  or renew.

Appears not.

The small print states one must give three months notice. 

So check your car park ticket for conditions.

[Nightwatch]

Yes. I was aware of this quite common clause. I guess it’s to prevent the Marina, mooring owner or ‘car park’ attendant from having no boats in the Park.

[Feeby100]

Three month is a bit long really even in a house brick built it’s a month normally 

 

[Higgs]

7 hours ago, johnmck said:

For us, a marina is a secure parking slot, normally over winter. But circumstances change, then add a pandemic!

But we have been somewhat naive. To me, a twelve month contract lasts...

12 months?

So, as our contract with the marina expires at the end of this month, we assumed that we could either leave upon expiry,  or renew.

Appears not.

The small print states one must give three months notice. 

So check your car park ticket for conditions.

 

You took out a whole year's contract. If you did not say to the marina that you intended to stay on, after the yearly term was up, your contract already had an end date, which was written into the yearly contract. The marina is asking you to renew a contract. You shouldn't have to renew it. I would seek advice from a Citizens Advice Bureau. Your end date and notice should be implicit in the contract you had previously taken out. You had already given a 12 month's notice. In my view. Your term of contract ended on the due date; beyond which, you haven't agreed to enter into another, or be obliged to follow the marina's Terms and Conditions. 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 17, 2021 by Higgs

[Athy]

Higgs is quite correct, in my view - though I'm not a lawyer In signing a finite contact, you gave notice the minute that you signed it.

Edited April 17, 2021 by Athy

[Higgs]

Is there anything in the contract that states you must confirm an end date other than the one the contract already states? Or, anything that states you must give notice that you do not intend to renew the contract; at 3 months before the end of the current contract?

 

 

 

 

[johnmck]

We previously only had a winter mooring at this marina, but circumstances changed. We moved house and then my partners "Winter" job, extended, then came the pandemic.

Ali works within the NHS and has been and will be for the forseeable future, working from home. Her role is loosely the training of international doctors. This now involves online training and necessities a good internet access. But, building work at home delayed due to Covid, will start in June. We will have to move out temporarily. No problem, we can move onto the boat and Ali can work from there. But she can't,  as the internet at the marina location is abysmal. If we leave the marina and move up the cut, full internet. But we need a location easily accessible for home. The solution was to leave our current location at the end of contract this month, and move. But we are now told we need to give three months notice of termination! Seems unfair to me.

[Higgs]

5 minutes ago, johnmck said:

We previously only had a winter mooring at this marina, but circumstances changed. We moved house and then my partners "Winter" job, extended, then came the pandemic.

Ali works within the NHS and has been and will be for the forseeable future, working from home. Her role is loosely the training of international doctors. This now involves online training and necessities a good internet access. But, building work at home delayed due to Covid, will start in June. We will have to move out temporarily. No problem, we can move onto the boat and Ali can work from there. But she can't,  as the internet at the marina location is abysmal. If we leave the marina and move up the cut, full internet. But we need a location easily accessible for home. The solution was to leave our current location at the end of contract this month, and move. But we are now told we need to give three months notice of termination! Seems unfair to me.

 

Seek advice, if there is no one here with legal experience, but your contract has an end date already. You knew it, the marina knew it. No surprises.  

 

 

Edited April 17, 2021 by Higgs

[Athy]

1 minute ago, johnmck said:

But we are now told we need to give three months notice of termination! Seems unfair to me.

Not only unfair, but nonsensical. If your contract states that it terminates on April 30th, that is surely binding for both sides, and no other notice need be given. Beyond April 30th, there is no contract. The marina is therefore asking you to give notice on an agreement which doesn't exist.

 

...is how it appears to me.

[johnmck]

The conditions state, "90 days written notice of the termination of a mooring contract is always required"

We took this to mean termination within the contract period, but they are stating that this applies beyond this?

[Col_T]

It sounds like @johnmck has what might be termed a 'rolling contract'.

 

It states an initial period, does not state a definite end date, and does include a notice period. This type of contract is often used where the service provided may well extend beyond the initial contract period, and removes any need to renew the contract at the end of the initial period. Often used by mobile phone companies.

[Bee]

flippin' nerve even if it proves to be enforcable by some crafty legal device. They'll be asking for 3 months notice of the dates when you go on holiday next.

[GUMPY]

27 minutes ago, johnmck said:

The conditions state, "90 days written notice of the termination of a mooring contract is always required"

We took this to mean termination within the contract period, but they are stating that this applies beyond this?

That is correct you should have given notice 3 months before you wanted to go.

If you signed the contract then I doubt you will get anywhere with it despite what has been said previosly.

My previous mooring was the same, despite having been there 25 years I still had to give prior notice of when I was leaving or pay a notice period after I had left.

 

 

BTW as usual with marina rules/contracts @Higgs is wrong

 

Edited April 17, 2021 by Loddon

[BWM]

What sanctions could they impose if you did decide to leave?

[Higgs]

20 minutes ago, Loddon said:

BTW as usual with marina rules/contracts @Higgs is wrong

 

You'll have to say why. I don't think I offered more than an opinion. What's your reason for stating yours, of mine. ??

 

 

[David Mack]

None of us have seen your mooring agreement, or know exactly what was said when you took up the mooring, so any advice has to be qualified. But did you say that you wanted a fixed 12 months at the start? Or did the duration just roll on as the various Covid restrictions arose? Some marinas offer a lower long term rate if you commit to staying at least 12 months, with the downside that you have to give more notice than a short term moorer who pays more per month.

[Laurie Booth]

9 hours ago, johnmck said:

For us, a marina is a secure parking slot, normally over winter. But circumstances change, then add a pandemic!

But we have been somewhat naive. To me, a twelve month contract lasts...

12 months?

So, as our contract with the marina expires at the end of this month, we assumed that we could either leave upon expiry,  or renew.

Appears not.

The small print states one must give three months notice. 

So check your car park ticket for conditions.

Have you asked the owners of the marina about this? They might not enforce some terms of the contract. One of my old places was very flexible. 

[frahkn]

1 hour ago, johnmck said:

The conditions state, "90 days written notice of the termination of a mooring contract is always required"

We took this to mean termination within the contract period, but they are stating that this applies beyond this?

The 90 day provision is imposed by the mooring contract. The contract exists only for 12 months so all of its provisions cease when it ends on the 365th day. If the marina thinks otherwise, let them try to enforce the provision.

 

'Course all this is assuming you will not need to go back there in the future.

[Tam & Di]

You don't say how you are paying - monthly? quartlerly? one year up-front on the original date of signing? It is not unusual for an operator to require a deposit of some kind in advance. This is to give him time to find a new boat to occupy the space you will vacate. Most marinas on CRT waters will be paying CRT a % based upon maximum income, whether or not all spaces are let. If you leave without notice you then forfeit the deposit. Such terms are an option with a British Marine Federation mooring licence agreement.

 

Tam

[David Mack]

Then there is the opposite scenario, where the boater signs a 12 month mooring agreement, and assumes that he can carry on mooring there indefinitely, only to find the marina operator on the phone the day after the end of the 12 month period saying "Why is your boat still here?"

[Higgs]

18 minutes ago, Tam & Di said:

You don't say how you are paying - monthly? quartlerly? one year up-front on the original date of signing? It is not unusual for an operator to require a deposit of some kind in advance. This is to give him time to find a new boat to occupy the space you will vacate. Most marinas on CRT waters will be paying CRT a % based upon maximum income, whether or not all spaces are let. If you leave without notice you then forfeit the deposit. Such terms are an option with a British Marine Federation mooring licence agreement.

 

Tam

 

Most marinas off CRT waters will be paying 9% - full or empty, on the full capacity reckoning. Access fee. Not charged to online moorings, on CRT water.  

 

 

Edited April 17, 2021 by Higgs

[Keeping Up]

13 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

Most marinas off CRT waters will be paying 9% - full or empty, on the full capacity reckoning. Access fee. Not charged to online moorings, on CRT water.  

 

 

Our 80ft on-line mooring on CRT water is classed by CRT as a small marina, and we have to pay them a fee (roughly equal to the local EOG fee) whether it is full or empty.

[Tam & Di]

I accept your statement 'Private marinas are not Trust's waterways', however the majority of owners (even those that would agree) have neither the time or energy to contest that and sign an agreement with CRT. Some will then have mooring agreements attempting to mitigate this such as I outline, and presumably the OP has signed one of these.

 

Tam

[Higgs]

1 minute ago, Keeping Up said:

Our 80ft on-line mooring on CRT water is classed by CRT as a small marina, and we have to pay them a fee (roughly equal to the local EOG fee) whether it is full or empty.

 

A mooring fee plus an extra, or a mooring fee?

 

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, Tam & Di said:

I accept your statement 'Private marinas are not Trust's waterways', however the majority of owners (even those that would agree) have neither the time or energy to contest that and sign an agreement with CRT. Some will then have mooring agreements attempting to mitigate this such as I outline, and presumably the OP has signed one of these.

 

Tam

 

You can't avoid the rules that apply. Don't wish to break them, but to change them. 

 

 

[Tam & Di]

23 minutes ago, Higgs said:

You can't avoid the rules that apply. Don't wish to break them, but to change them.

 

The 'rules' are within the Enabling Acts of Parliament for the various canals. These differ from each other so must be read carefully for each individual canal, but are still extant (with subsequent amendments). Unfortunately BW and then CRT often ignore this and have managed to persuade people otherwise in several instances. The cost of seeking highest level interpretation of e.g. clauses re 'places for boats to moor or lie' is probably way beyond any individual operator.

 

Tam

Edited April 17, 2021 by Tam & Di