BMC 2.5L throttle pipe and Lift pump banjo bolt

[matt98]

Hello, 

 

I have a 2.5L BMC in a river boat. It was leaking oil from several places so have had to remove the intake manifold. In doing so I attempted to remove the throttle pipe when I did this rather than the nut turning around the pipe the pipe twisted and snapped (all happened instantly). Does anyone know what type of flare is on the this pipe or is it an insert? The pipe is 8.03mm on the Vernier's so is most likely 8mm.  Also, does anyone know where I can get either the pipe with the flares on or the flares to braise into place from? 

 

The previous owner severely rounded the banjo bolt on the lift pump, I have removed it but it seems to be a weird size does anyone know what size it is and where i could get one from? 

 

 

Many thanks in advance 

 

Matt 

[Tony Brooks]

It's not 8mm if its old enough to have the pneumatically controlled injector pump as indicated by your use of "throttle pipe" my guess would be 5/16". On no account try to run it without that pipe in place, it might run away.

 

That is not a flare, it's a soft soldered, silver soldered or brazed on olive. If you heat it to bright red you should be able to pull the pipe out of the olive.

 

Hang on - 2.5 with a throttle pipe - I think not. If its a 2.5 it should have a mechanical DPA injector pump, not a pneumatically controlled inline injector pump. Could it be a very old 2.2?

 

Unless the banjo bolt has damaged the pump body I think a hollow male inverted flare nut and olive will go into the pump and seal on a taper at the bottom of the threaded hole. I suspect a BMC 1.5 olive and inverted flare nut will fit straight into the pump., it's just a case of finding the pipe size and getting the nut and olive to suit.

 

I think I would try to find an "old boy" in a long-established general garage (take the lift pump with you), possibly Calcutt Boats or Streehay Wharf or many other long-established yards.

 

 

B is an inverted flair nut that I suggest  but A is a bit of a bodge with an adaptor screwed into the pump body and a standard compression olive to connect the pipe.

 

Edited April 16, 2021 by Tony Brooks

[David Mack]

8 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I think I would try to find an "old boy" in a long-established general garage (take the lift pump with you), possibly Calcutt Boats or Streehay Wharf or many other long-established yards.

The OP's location is given as Cheltenham so Calcutt and Streethay are not very convenient. I wonder if http://www.rwdavis.co.uk/ at Saul could help?

[Tony Brooks]

7 minutes ago, David Mack said:

The OP's location is given as Cheltenham so Calcutt and Streethay are not very convenient. I wonder if http://www.rwdavis.co.uk/ at Saul could help?

 

That may be where he lives, the boat could be anywhere.

 

I suspect they could.. Also a long-established diesel equipment overhauler/specialist but I don't know any in that area. If he knows what he needs (which he does not) then an engineering supplier may stock what he needs but i fear he may have to buy a box of assorted olives.

Edited April 16, 2021 by Tony Brooks

[matt98]

Yes apologies I tried uploading the imperial measurement which was 0.315 inches which I believe is 5/15 as you suggested Tony. Thank you for that advice as that is definitely something I don't want to happen. 

 

I have tried that and got it red hot and it didn't pull out it just slightly deformed the flare end. 

 

The person i bought the boat from said it was a 2.5 but from what I have heard there is very little difference between the two so it may very possibly be a 2.2. 

 

If I use an inverted flare nut on the lift pump how will I then seal the banjo which is from the lift pump to the fuel filter by the thermostat housing, is it not easier to find a banjo bolt to suit? 

 

I have tried finding an "old boy" but they are getting harder to find unfortunately. 

10 minutes ago, David Mack said:

The OP's location is given as Cheltenham so Calcutt and Streethay are not very convenient. I wonder if http://www.rwdavis.co.uk/ at Saul could help?

thank you for this suggestion i will give them a call 

[Tony Brooks]

5 minutes ago, matt98 said:

Yes apologies I tried uploading the imperial measurement which was 0.315 inches which I believe is 5/15 as you suggested Tony. Thank you for that advice as that is definitely something I don't want to happen. 

 

I have tried that and got it red hot and it didn't pull out it just slightly deformed the flare end. 

 

The person i bought the boat from said it was a 2.5 but from what I have heard there is very little difference between the two so it may very possibly be a 2.2. 

 

If I use an inverted flare nut on the lift pump how will I then seal the banjo which is from the lift pump to the fuel filter by the thermostat housing, is it not easier to find a banjo bolt to suit? 

 

I have tried finding an "old boy" but they are getting harder to find unfortunately. 

thank you for this suggestion i will give them a call 

 

Banjos and bolts are normally sealed by two soft washers, usually new copper ones but it may need a pair of doughty washers is anything is distorted.

I think you may have to take the pump, filter, or both to whoever is willing to help to ensure you get the correct threads. You don't have to use flare nuts, you could always use a pair of adaptors as shown in A in my photo. It's just a question making sure the threads are correct.

 

Banjo bolt on the fuel filter sounds very much like  a very elderly 2.2 with the inline injector pump because the DPA ones used the same filter as the 1.5 etc, that is the filter sandwiched between a top and bottom plate. The early 2.2s had a paper filter in a metal can. To be sure I think it would be a good idea to post a phoo of the injector pump when your present issues are solved.

[Tony Brooks]

One further thing. If you decide to go down the adaptor with compression fitting please do not use a taper thread. I have seen too many lift pump bodies and filter heads split by those.