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Installing 12v line to run Huawei 535 router off battery bank: Would this work?


Jim Batty

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I'm looking to run a Huawei B535 router directly off the battery bank. The router's power adapter is rated at DC (output): 12V / 1A. I've discovered a spare switch on our 12v ring that isn't too far from where we want to place the router, so thought I could wire it from that. Would the following work?

 

1) Wires from the switch lead to a 12v / 4A stabiliser like this:  spacer.png

 

 

2) Then wires run from stabiliser to a Twin Cigarette Accessory Socket like this:   

 

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3) I cut off the power adaptor from the Huawei lead and attach a male cigarette plug like this.

 

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4) Then connect the router by plugging the cigarette plug into the Accessory Socket ... and away we go.

 

 

 

If that is correct, how exactly should the Stabiliser be wired? Would it be like this: POS Switch --> POS-IN Stabiliser (Red) --> POS-OUT Stabiliser (Yellow) --> POS-Sockets ... and NEG-Sockets --> NEG-IN Stabiliser (Black) --> NEG-OUT Stabiliser (Black) --> NEG Switch?

 

Does this make sense?

 

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Battery voltage in on the red and black next to eachother as marked on the stabiliser.

 

Stabilised voltage out to the twin socket yellow plus and black next to it negative.

 

Normally I would expect the centre pin on the cigarette lighter plug to be positive but that will depend upon how you connect the wires from the stabiliser. you may find the blades on the sockets are different sizes. That is the bit that you must get correct.

 

You need to test the plug that normally goes into the router to ensure you know if the centre pin is pos or neg, its usually pos but one can't be 100% sure. There may be a little diagram on the router that tells you. When you connect the plug and plug it into the sockets double check you have the polarity correct otherwise it will be new router time ----- probably.

 

 

 

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Mine is working quite happliy with a similar converter.

Input  Cigarette plug (with a fuse)  Red +ve, black -ve, red to centre pin.

Output To 2.1mm dc plug Yellow +ve, black -ve , yellow to centre of connector.

Done that way so it can be moved to the caravan rather than leaving the PSU on the boat.

 

Edited by Loddon
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I'm planning a similar set-up but without the socket so mine will be permanently wired. As one who has previously killed a router with crossed polarity I emphasise the importance of a polarity check - in fact several. :blush:

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Right, thanks for this. I will need to be very careful with the polarity throughout when rigging this up. (I don't have the router or stabiliser yet.)

 

On the Twin Socket, are the two sockets wired up in parallel? I.e., the NEG and POS wires connect to the appropriate blades on Socket 1, then a short NEG and short POS wire connect on to the appropriate blades on Socket 2?

 

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7 minutes ago, Jim Batty said:

Right, thanks for this. I will need to be very careful with the polarity throughout when rigging this up. (I don't have the router or stabiliser yet.)

 

On the Twin Socket, are the two sockets wired up in parallel? I.e., the NEG and POS wires connect to the appropriate blades on Socket 1, then a short NEG and short POS wire connect on to the appropriate blades on Socket 2?

 

Yes, but if you might want to plug a higher powered item in that might overload the stabiliser it may be better to mark up a stabilised output for the router and  one direct from the batteries. Another  way would be to put a 3 amp fuse between stabiliser and sockets and wire them in parallel.

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3 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

Battery voltage in on the red and black next to eachother as marked on the stabiliser.

 

Stabilised voltage out to the twin socket yellow plus and black next to it negative.

 

Thanks Tony. I see how the stabiliser works now. It's differently than I originally thought.

 

28 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Yes, but if you might want to plug a higher powered item in that might overload the stabiliser it may be better to mark up a stabilised output for the router and  one direct from the batteries. Another  way would be to put a 3 amp fuse between stabiliser and sockets and wire them in parallel.

 

We're not really planning on plugging in anything high powered. The second plug would be used for charging a phone with one of those USB cigarette lighter adapter plugs.

 

I've got a flat blade fuse holder. So, I think you're saying I could connect this, with a 3amp fuse in it, just behind the twin socket mount, between the yellow wire from the stabiliser and the POS terminal of the first socket. Yes?

 

 

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4 hours ago, Jim Batty said:

I'm looking to run a Huawei B535 router directly off the battery bank. The router's power adapter is rated at DC (output): 12V / 1A. I've discovered a spare switch on our 12v ring that isn't too far from where we want to place the router, so thought I could wire it from that. Would the following work?

 

1) Wires from the switch lead to a 12v / 4A stabiliser like this:  spacer.png

 

 

2) Then wires run from stabiliser to a Twin Cigarette Accessory Socket like this:   

 

spacer.png

 

 

3) I cut off the power adaptor from the Huawei lead and attach a male cigarette plug like this.

 

spacer.png

 

4) Then connect the router by plugging the cigarette plug into the Accessory Socket ... and away we go.

 

 

 

If that is correct, how exactly should the Stabiliser be wired? Would it be like this: POS Switch --> POS-IN Stabiliser (Red) --> POS-OUT Stabiliser (Yellow) --> POS-Sockets ... and NEG-Sockets --> NEG-IN Stabiliser (Black) --> NEG-OUT Stabiliser (Black) --> NEG Switch?

 

Does this make sense?

 

 

With an older version of your router, (Huawei 310sw-22 I think), i plugged it directly into the 12V supply with a cable that happened to have a barrel plug that fitted, and it worked fine for a couple of years... I had Trojan T105 batteries, and equalised at 15.1V.

 

More recently, (last year), I found a USB 5V to 12V cable with the right sized barrel plug, and have been using that ever since - a very simple solution.

 

The one I bought seems to be no longer available, but here is something similar:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/12V-Voltage-Step-Converter-Cable-5V/dp/B07J6NYVJV/ref=sr_1_3?crid=F670AUZ0QCY9&dchild=1&keywords=5v+to+12v+usb+converter&qid=1618520882&sprefix=5v+to+12v+%2Caps%2C207&sr=8-3

 

I use a few USB solutions to low power situations these days ...... and now that there is the PD facility with USB C, I am sure I'll bee using them in higher powered situations - already do for my laptop, which takes either 45W or 60W, cant recall right now.

 

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48 minutes ago, Jim Batty said:

 

Thanks Tony. I see how the stabiliser works now. It's differently than I originally thought.

 

 

We're not really planning on plugging in anything high powered. The second plug would be used for charging a phone with one of those USB cigarette lighter adapter plugs.

 

I've got a flat blade fuse holder. So, I think you're saying I could connect this, with a 3amp fuse in it, just behind the twin socket mount, between the yellow wire from the stabiliser and the POS terminal of the first socket. Yes?

 

 

 

Yes, but its only to protect the stabiliser if for any reason you tried to draw more than 4 amps out of it. You may ask why not a 4 amps fuse and the answer is they take time to blow so 3 amps make a blow at 4 amps a bit more likely.

 

If someone decided to plug a 12v computer power supply into a socket then it is likely to draw up to 10 amps at times so that is why  suggested it might be an idea to provide one socket straight from the boat's 12V supply and the other stabilised as long as they are clearly marked. Personally I would avoid having a spare outlet so the single outlet could be painted red and marked as 4 Amos Max.

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18 hours ago, Richard10002 said:

More recently, (last year), I found a USB 5V to 12V cable with the right sized barrel plug, and have been using that ever since - a very simple solution.

 

The one I bought seems to be no longer available, but here is something similar:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/12V-Voltage-Step-Converter-Cable-5V/dp/B07J6NYVJV/ref=sr_1_3?crid=F670AUZ0QCY9&dchild=1&keywords=5v+to+12v+usb+converter&qid=1618520882&sprefix=5v+to+12v+%2Caps%2C207&sr=8-3

 

I use a few USB solutions to low power situations these days ...... and now that there is the PD facility with USB C, I am sure I'll bee using them in higher powered situations - already do for my laptop, which takes either 45W or 60W, cant recall right now.

 

 

Interesting. Are you suggesting that I could run the 12v router off, for example, my laptop using the USB5v to 12v cable?

 

It would surely be a bit whacky to drop the 12v socket down to 5v (via one of those cigarette lighter 5v adapters) ... only to invert it to 12v via the cable? Or am I missing something here (quite likely!)?

 

18 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Yes, but its only to protect the stabiliser if for any reason you tried to draw more than 4 amps out of it. You may ask why not a 4 amps fuse and the answer is they take time to blow so 3 amps make a blow at 4 amps a bit more likely.

 

If someone decided to plug a 12v computer power supply into a socket then it is likely to draw up to 10 amps at times so that is why  suggested it might be an idea to provide one socket straight from the boat's 12V supply and the other stabilised as long as they are clearly marked. Personally I would avoid having a spare outlet so the single outlet could be painted red and marked as 4 Amos Max.

 

Yes, I understand you Tony. 

 

So, to have this 'two-mode' pair of sockets you describe, can I simply wire up Socket 1 (non-stabilised socket) directly to the 12v line from the batteries ... and wire the stabiliser between POS Socket 1 to POS Socket 2 (stabilised socket) ... (and just wire NEG Socket 2 back to to NEG Socket 1)?

 

BTW, the 12v run I'm using isn't running literally directly from the battery bank. I'm using a 12v line that formerly illuminated half a dozen LED under-the-gunwale-sex-lights (that are near useless ... and not very sexy!) that is connected to the boat's electrical panel with the usual proper circuit breakers. 

 

I appreciate you are giving me a master class in 12v wiring here.  It's much appreciated.

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1 minute ago, Jim Batty said:

Yes, I understand you Tony. 

 

So, to have this 'two-mode' pair of sockets you describe, can I simply wire up Socket 1 (non-stabilised socket) directly to the 12v line from the batteries ... and wire the stabiliser between POS Socket 1 to POS Socket 2 (stabilised socket) ... (and just wire NEG Socket 2 back to to NEG Socket 1)?

 

BTW, the 12v run I'm using isn't running literally directly from the battery bank. I'm using a 12v line that formerly illuminated half a dozen LED under-the-gunwale-sex-lights (that are near useless ... and not very sexy!) that is connected to the boat's electrical panel with the usual proper circuit breakers. 

 

I appreciate you are giving me a master class in 12v wiring here.  It's much appreciated.

 

1. Are you sure the cable you are using is up to the intended and future jobs? half a dozen LEDs draw hardly any current.

 

2. The stabiliser has TWO negative cables and we have no way of knowing if they are commoned inside the unit so its best to assume that they are not. This means the  two black wires should never be connected together. So if you intend to wire battery 12V to one socket and pick up the 12V feed for the stabiliser from the back of that socket then the red and black wires run from that (battery supplied) socket and the yellow and black wires feed the other socket. The two black wires are never joined.

 

How you do the wiring is up to you. I have just tries to warn you about the danger of trying to draw over twice the stabiliser's designed current some time in the future and  whoever may try that will is unlikely to be you.

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12 minutes ago, Jim Batty said:

 

Interesting. Are you suggesting that I could run the 12v router off, for example, my laptop using the USB5v to 12v cable?

 

I wasn't suggesting that, but it might be possible :) I haven't tried it and probably wont, (see below)

 

12 minutes ago, Jim Batty said:

 

It would surely be a bit whacky to drop the 12v socket down to 5v (via one of those cigarette lighter 5v adapters) ... only to invert it to 12v via the cable? Or am I missing something here (quite likely!)?

 

 

It might seem wacky, (and it isn't what I do :) ), but I am reasonably sure that the 5v from the USB socket is regulated, as is the 12V from the conversion cable, whereas the 12V from your batteries could be anything up to 15V, depending how you charge them. So, what seems whacky might actually be a good way of regulating.

 

I actually have a bank of 4 x USB sockets connected directly to the boat 12V supply. It includes 2 x 2.1A sockets, and 2 x 1A sockets. Because the router says 1A at 12V, (i.e. 12W), I use a 2.1A USB socket as that provides 5V x 2.1A = 10.5W, which has worked fine for a year or so. I think the Laptop and PC USB sockets tend to be of the 1A version, so only 5W, which may not be enough for the router. 

 

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1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

1. Are you sure the cable you are using is up to the intended and future jobs? half a dozen LEDs draw hardly any current.

 

2. The stabiliser has TWO negative cables and we have no way of knowing if they are commoned inside the unit so its best to assume that they are not. This means the  two black wires should never be connected together. So if you intend to wire battery 12V to one socket and pick up the 12V feed for the stabiliser from the back of that socket then the red and black wires run from that (battery supplied) socket and the yellow and black wires feed the other socket. The two black wires are never joined.

 

How you do the wiring is up to you. I have just tries to warn you about the danger of trying to draw over twice the stabiliser's designed current some time in the future and  whoever may try that will is unlikely to be you.

 

Thanks Tony.

 

1) The 12v system throughout the boat are what look like 17 Amp single cables -- the same size of cable I have bought at an auto factor, that says Max Load 200 watts on the pack and suitable for halogen fog lamps, battery charger clips, screen heaters. 

 

2) Yes, in my excitement I forgot that the stabiliser wasn't a single in/single out device. So I see what you mean.

 

You know, I'm starting to think about simply wiring the 12v circuit directly through the stabiliser to a lead with a barrel jack on the end suitable for the router (or using the lead off the router's power adapter). This single purpose set-up would make everything much simpler, be less confusing, would eliminate the cigarette lighter sockets and plugs and even look better. Alternatively, run the 12v circuit to a proper non-AC socket and attach an appropriate plug to the router lead. If I want to set up the cigarette sockets for phone charging, I can do that separately and elsewhere.

 

1 hour ago, Richard10002 said:

 

I wasn't suggesting that, but it might be possible :) I haven't tried it and probably wont, (see below)

 

 

It might seem wacky, (and it isn't what I do :) ), but I am reasonably sure that the 5v from the USB socket is regulated, as is the 12V from the conversion cable, whereas the 12V from your batteries could be anything up to 15V, depending how you charge them. So, what seems whacky might actually be a good way of regulating.

 

I actually have a bank of 4 x USB sockets connected directly to the boat 12V supply. It includes 2 x 2.1A sockets, and 2 x 1A sockets. Because the router says 1A at 12V, (i.e. 12W), I use a 2.1A USB socket as that provides 5V x 2.1A = 10.5W, which has worked fine for a year or so. I think the Laptop and PC USB sockets tend to be of the 1A version, so only 5W, which may not be enough for the router. 

 

 

Thanks Richard. Interesting stuff. I guess I'd need to be pretty darned sure that the USB socket was acting as a regulator for my purposes. 

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22 minutes ago, Jim Batty said:

 

 

1) The 12v system throughout the boat are what look like 17 Amp single cables -- the same size of cable I have bought at an auto factor, that says Max Load 200 watts on the pack and suitable for halogen fog lamps, battery charger clips, screen heaters. 

 

 

 

Sorry but that is a beginners mistake, especially on long thin narrowboats. In this case I think it will be fine for your use BUT for cable runs of over a meter or two, especially at 12/24V you should size the cable to minimise volt drop and ignore what it says on the cable drum etc. To do that you need to know the conductor cross sectional area (CCSA). Just to confuse the issue there are two types of insulation and the older type looks much thicker than the new although the CCSA is the same. The icing on the cake is that the maximum cable capacity for on the new stuff is higher than that of the old but as the conductors are the same size its all down to being able to dissipate more heat than the old. The amount of  heat generated in a cable is proportional to the volt drop it produces so it all gets complicated.

 

Just to reiterate I think your cable for your use will be fine even if it is a 20 meter or so run out and back.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Tony Brooks said:

The icing on the cake is that the maximum cable capacity for on the new stuff is higher than that of the old but as the conductors are the same size its all down to being able to dissipate more heat than the old.

 

 

Just to support that, the RCD specification (ISO10133 Small craft — Electrical systems — Extra-low-voltage d.c. installations) has a table showing the current rating of various cables at different temeratures.

 

You can see that, for example, 1mm wiring could be anywhere between 8 amp and 35 amp. You cannot quote a current rating without quoting the temperature as well.

 

 

 

Screenshot (221).png

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5 hours ago, Jim Batty said:

Thanks Richard. Interesting stuff. I guess I'd need to be pretty darned sure that the USB socket was acting as a regulator for my purposes. 

 

I appreciate what you are saying, and was actually hoping that someone who knows would either confirm what I was saying, (or otherwise).

 

Having said that, as I say, whilst my router is an earlier version of yours, it has been supplied directly for the 12V battery source, unregulated, for a couple of years, and from a 5V to 12V USB source for a year or so.

 

I suppose the thing to find out, if you are interested in the simplicity, (IMHO), of USB, is whether 5V is regulated 5V, and whether the 12V out of the other end is regulated 12V.

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I did something similar a year ago. I found that it is very important to keep the stabilised power supply well away from the router. Mine was a couple of feet away & is now over 12 fet away, because otherwise it just interferes with my radio which is near the router.

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12 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Just to support that, the RCD specification (ISO10133 Small craft — Electrical systems — Extra-low-voltage d.c. installations) has a table showing the current rating of various cables at different temeratures.

 

You can see that, for example, 1mm wiring could be anywhere between 8 amp and 35 amp. You cannot quote a current rating without quoting the temperature as well.

 

 

 

Screenshot (221).png

 

This table appears to refer to the temperature rating of the cable insulation rather than to the ambient temperature in which the cable is installed.  

 

The current rating of a cable is reduced with an increase in ambient temperature. 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Idle Days said:

 

This table appears to refer to the temperature rating of the cable insulation rather than to the ambient temperature in which the cable is installed.  

 

The current rating of a cable is reduced with an increase in ambient temperature. 

 

 

 

That explains why I could not make head or ail of it with the rising temperature apparently allowing a higher current flow when if it were ambient temperature I would have expected the opposite.

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15 minutes ago, Idle Days said:

 

This table appears to refer to the temperature rating of the cable insulation rather than to the ambient temperature in which the cable is installed.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, I am aware of that, running a current down a cable increases its temperature.

 

I doubt that you would be likely to install cables in your NB where the ambient temperature is 100C let alone 200C

High temperature PVC (as used on the so called Tri-rated cables) is rated at 105C so more than sufficient, but still gives the possibility of confusion as it offers a wide range of current ratings.

 

If you allow your cables to 'run hotter' then you can base your cable choice on higher current ratings.

 

As had been said previously - in our boating applications the current rating, whilst being critical to ensuring safe usage, the other key factor is volt-drop, &, whilst a (say) 1mm cable is technically suitable, we may need a 4mm+ to actually enable the equipment to run with an acceptable volt drop (max 3%)

 

(Experience 15 years as a cable designer for a major cable manufacturer)

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Yes, I am aware of that, running a current down a cable increases its temperature.

 

I doubt that you would be likely to install cables in your NB where the ambient temperature is 100C let alone 200C

High temperature PVC (as used on the so called Tri-rated cables) is rated at 105C so more than sufficient, but still gives the possibility of confusion as it offers a wide range of current ratings.

 

As had been said previously - in our boating applications the current rating, whilst being critical to ensuring safe usage, the other key factor is volt-drop, &, whilst a (say) 1mm cable is technically suitable, we may need a 4mm+ to actually enable the equipment to run with an acceptable volt drop (max 3%)

 

(Experience : 15 years as a cable designer for a major cable manufacturer)

 

That kind of explains any confusion. You had to consider the insulation temperature rating for particular applications so the cart was as plain as day to you. I associate cable temperature with volt drop so the apparent discrepancy was what stood out and to be honest until this morning I did not notice the bit in the header bar about insulation temperature. Too bust trying to figure out what the table was on about to read all the text.

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  • 1 month later...

I have finally set up this 12v line to power my router - through the above Cocar Car DC 12V 4A Voltage Stabilizer Surge Protector. I'm at that stage where I'm checking polarity.

 

When I put my multi-meter, set to volts, onto the line immediately after the Stabiliser it immediately registers 12.0v when I turn the line's switch on. Great! Now, when I turn the line switch off again, the multi-meter slowly starts to drop from 12v to 0v over the next 3 or 4 minutes. As you all know, I am no expert in this field, but it seems there is a residual voltage in the line. Is this normal? Or is there something not quite right here? (If I unhook the multi-meter the voltage immediately reads 0; if I hook it back up again within the 3 or 4 minutes, it shows the diminishing voltage again.)

 

Thanks again for you help.

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31 minutes ago, Jim Batty said:

I have finally set up this 12v line to power my router - through the above Cocar Car DC 12V 4A Voltage Stabilizer Surge Protector. I'm at that stage where I'm checking polarity.

 

When I put my multi-meter, set to volts, onto the line immediately after the Stabiliser it immediately registers 12.0v when I turn the line's switch on. Great! Now, when I turn the line switch off again, the multi-meter slowly starts to drop from 12v to 0v over the next 3 or 4 minutes. As you all know, I am no expert in this field, but it seems there is a residual voltage in the line. Is this normal? Or is there something not quite right here? (If I unhook the multi-meter the voltage immediately reads 0; if I hook it back up again within the 3 or 4 minutes, it shows the diminishing voltage again.)

 

Thanks again for you help.

There is probably a bloody great capacitor in the works of the stabilizer and you are seeing this discharging. Quite normal.

 

N

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