Is Spelling Important?

[Ray T]

Spelling wasn’t important to many a boat person as they had limited opportunity of schooling.

Most of those who went to school hated it at best. The “townies” often bullied the boaties, many a punch up ensuing, guess who got the blame!

There were boat schools in Brentford, Bulls Bridge and Birmingham which were not overly successful at educating an often reluctant and sometimes absent audience. 

It was really only into the late 50’s that boat parents wanted better for their children and strived to get them an education.
Perhaps many had limited spelling and writing ability but, boy, could they count money, you’d never diddle a boatie.

Many of the men had wonderful self taught musical ability, especially the squeeze box and accordian .
 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Ray T

[Jerra]

45 minutes ago, Ex Brummie said:

 

I think it is sad that our education establishments are dumbing down the importance of spelling and grammar. 

Not in my experience they aren't.   Personally I feel social media and the Internet are doing more harm to spelling and grammar.

[Captain Pegg]

2 hours ago, Ex Brummie said:

When you talk about spelling as something is spoken, this is wonderfully illustrated around the canal system. A couple off the Staffs and Worcs Canal are Tunstall Water Bridge, which is by Dunstall, and at Wombourne, we have Houndel Bridge which is where Ounsdale Road crosses. There must be many examples over the country.

When one considers the standard of education of boatmen and canal employees, then spelling and pronunciation obviously suffered. I always wonder about helms being corrupted to 'ellums, the same material used for canalboat bottoms.

I think it is sad that our education establishments are dumbing down the importance of spelling and grammar. Apart from the lack of pride in our language, it can only lead to the possibility of misunderstandings due to the vagaries of our tongue.

I’ve always taken ‘ellum simply to be a dialect pronunciation. That’s how my grandmother spoke but I don’t so I wouldn’t naturally use the term. She certainly would never have spelt it knowingly incorrectly, same applies to many other dialect specific pronunciations around the country.

 

 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Captain Pegg

[Bee]

And then there is 'wynd' According to the dictionary it is a word for a narrow lane, path. jitty, alley and a whole heap of local names. Around this part of the world it seems to be attached to places where winding engines once stood although I suppose wynd could refer to the narrow bit where cables once ran. Who knows.

[Captain Pegg]

52 minutes ago, Ray T said:

Spelling wasn’t important to many a boat person as they had limited opportunity of schooling.

Most of those who went to school hated it at best. The “townies” often bullied the boaties, many a punch up ensuing, guess who got the blame!

There were boat schools in Brentford, Bulls Bridge and Birmingham which were not overly successful at educating an often reluctant and absent audience. 

It was really only into the late 50’s that boat parents wanted better for their children and strived to get them an education.
Perhaps many had limited spelling and writing ability but, boy, could they count money, you’d never diddle a boatie.

Many of the men had wonderful self taught musical ability, especially the squeeze box and accordian .
 

 
My great grandmother - born and raised on the family boats until her marriage -  insisted on living on land so her children could be schooled. She didn’t consider a boat to be a proper place to raise her family. That was the 1890s.

Edited April 14, 2021 by Captain Pegg

[Ray T]

Just now, Captain Pegg said:

 
My great grandmother - born and raised on the family boats until her marriage -  insisted on living on land so her children could be schooled. She didn’t consider a boat to be a proper place to raise her family. That was the 1890s.

There is always the exception that "Proves the rule."

 

"the exception that proves the rule"

That which contradicts or goes against a supposed rule, and therefore proves it in one's mind.

 

[Captain Pegg]

1 minute ago, Ray T said:

There is always the exception that "Proves the rule."

 

"the exception that proves the rule"

That which contradicts or goes against a supposed rule, and therefore proves it in one's mind.

 

What rule?

 

Remember there was only a small percentage of boaters left by the 1950s compared to what there had been even half a century earlier. The attraction of being able to lead a normal family life was a factor in the decision to leave the canal for many, even if the numbers in general were a natural consequence of the decline of canal carrying. Those left by the 1950s were the die-hards, the last of the breed, the folk who knew nothing different and probably didn’t want to.

[magpie patrick]

Spelling eh - I live in Frome, that's FROOM - lock gates are made at Bradley Yard, that's BRAIDLEE... 

Spelling was so important they made sure it was absolutely correct on the Town Class GUCCCo boats! 

[Hastings]

4 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

Spelling eh - I live in Frome, that's FROOM - lock gates are made at Bradley Yard, that's BRAIDLEE... 

Spelling was so important they made sure it was absolutely correct on the Town Class GUCCCo boats! 

By that I presume you mean BILSTER, EDGEWARE and GLOSSOR to name but a few.

[Arthur Marshall]

Of course, if you think about it, no words actually mean anything real anyway, however they're said or spelt. Somehow, we allocate certain meanings to certain noises (or shapes on paper), but something that writes is no more really an aunt's pen than it's la plume of a tante. It's all just consensus, and so is spelling and grammar. The crucial thing is whether your meaning gets across.

And I gather that at the atomic level, most of everything isn't there anyway, which is why nothing matters much except whether you enjoy life or not, so picking on someone cos they don't write proper is a bit of a waste of time, whatever that is.

I think I need another drink.

[Thomas C King]

3 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Well, I've now read that five times and I still haven't a clue what point was being made, which must mean something, though admittedly I don't know what. 

The first seven words are fine, quite true it doesn't matter really if things get spelt wrong, half the time its predictive text anyway, but after that it loses me.

 

It's.

[Thomas C King]

4 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Of course, if you think about it, no words actually mean anything real anyway, however they're said or spelt. Somehow, we allocate certain meanings to certain noises (or shapes on paper), but something that writes is no more really an aunt's pen than it's la plume of a tante. It's all just consensus, and so is spelling and grammar. The crucial thing is whether your meaning gets across.

 

But meaning as use is "real", you've just described the later Wittgenstein's language games (probably intentionally). If by "real", you instead mean whether semantics can impact our world, that too is easily demonstrated by institutions such as marriage or money. There is no it's "just" consensus, because consensus has created semantic spaces that have shaped our world just as much as physical phenomena. We can do many things with words.

[Feeby100]

See we all are not perfect even ones that judge 

I rested my case ?

[Arthur Marshall]

12 minutes ago, Thomas C King said:

 

It's.

Missed that one. I have to correct half what I write on a tablet. And on a computer I always hit a ; instead of a '. I have a suspicion my dad's typewriter had the ' where the ; is now. The apostrophe in "its" is another oddity, cos they both should have one really. You'd get the meaning from context. You don't pronounce apostrophes when you talk, so why write them?

And my whole point is that you shouldn't judge, as long as the meaning is clear. And nobody's perfect except saints, and them only when dead.

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Captain Pegg said:

I’ve always taken ‘ellum simply to be a dialect pronunciation. That’s how my grandmother spoke but I don’t so I wouldn’t naturally use the term. She certainly would never have spelt it wrongly, same applies to many other dialect specific pronunciations around the country.

 

 

Is that the tree or what you steer the boat with? Words are funny things

16 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Missed that one. I have to correct half what I write on a tablet. And on a computer I always hit a ; instead of a '. I have a suspicion my dad's typewriter had the ' where the ; is now. The apostrophe in "its" is another oddity, cos they both should have one really. You'd get the meaning from context. You don't pronounce apostrophes when you talk, so why write them?

And my whole point is that you shouldn't judge, as long as the meaning is clear. And nobody's perfect except saints, and them only when dead.

Walking two miles today was too much to do

[Nightwatch]

I’m from oop norf, my wife isn’t.

 

Quite a few years ago we were being assisted up the Wigan Flight. The very nice CRT volunteer asked my wife if she had a spur. My wife didn’t know what a spur was in relation to locking. After three or four times of asking, he asked again, have you a spur windlass?

 

I over heard the conversation. I shrugged my shoulders and handed one to him.

[Bewildered]

Spelling is very important. Canal has a c at the beginning to stop people getting confused.

[NB Esk]

It’s difficult to to spell a spoken word incorrectly but some manage it.  Axe instead of Ask, that’s a real wind up.  Then there’s the mispronounced words, presumably for dramatic effect, Newkiller instead of Nuclear.  Why? Nuclear sounds scary enough....

 

 

 

 

[Athy]

3 minutes ago, NB Esk said:

 Axe instead of Ask, that’s a real wind up.

 

 

That's just a regional variation, used in the Southern states of the U.S.A.

Are you suggesting that the standard of pronunciation is deteriating?

[Arthur Marshall]

14 minutes ago, Athy said:

That's just a regional variation, used in the Southern states of the U.S.A.

Are you suggesting that the standard of pronunciation is deteriating?

Most of the time on the BBC now, "pronunciation" is pronounced "pronounciation", so yes!

 

[Bee]

Chimberly instead of chimney Grrrr. Prostrate instead prostate, even more grrr. 

[magpie patrick]

Not strictly spelling but the interchange of effect and affect grates on me - the effect it has on me affects me quite badly

[Nightwatch]

Read a buck instead of book. That green stuff is grass not grarss . Keep your car in a garage not a garaaaarge. There are so many.

 

 

Edited April 15, 2021 by Nightwatch

[Thomas C King]

10 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Missed that one. I have to correct half what I write on a tablet. And on a computer I always hit a ; instead of a '. I have a suspicion my dad's typewriter had the ' where the ; is now. The apostrophe in "its" is another oddity, cos they both should have one really. You'd get the meaning from context. You don't pronounce apostrophes when you talk, so why write them?

And my whole point is that you shouldn't judge, as long as the meaning is clear. And nobody's perfect except saints, and them only when dead.

 

Eep, didn't mean that to be taken seriously.

[Athy]

10 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Most of the time on the BBC now, "pronunciation" is pronounced "pronounciation", so yes!

 

Is that by their crime correspondent, Laura Norder?