Continual cruising - hot water & Generators

[blackrose]

37 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Don't worry Tony, I have those (above) nuisances on ignore for good reason. They always have some gripe on every single post I make. I just wish they would x off. Imho they are mysogenistic trolls. They absolutely hate my posts, so why do they feel obliged to read them and comment in a nasty way? See previous sentence. 

 

If you have all these mysogenistic trolls (as you call them) on ignore, how would you even know what they are saying?

 

In fact as Alan has said people are only responding to some of the nonsense you write. That's not mysogenistic or the actions of trolls. They're simply correcting the misleading statements you make for the benefit of people who may not know.

 

You're also not obliged to read the comments or feel the need to respond with insults. Nobody is insulting you, they're just correcting you. If I write rubbish I'll be corrected too and occasionally that has happened. Unfortunately when it happens I can't play the gender card.

[doratheexplorer]

Different boats are set up differently with regards to having power, hot water and heating.  My system works for me but might not for you.

 

I have 525w of solar.  By now it would normally provide all the power I need, but since I started working from home, it's not quite there.  I run a laptop with 2 monitors for circa. 8 hours a day.  So I do need to top up now and then if it's an overcast day, or if I find myself moored in a shady spot.  I've always said that you need at least two methods of making power, hot water and heat, so options are a very good thing.  I can run my engine for power + hot water, I can run my genny for just power, I can run my gas boiler for heating + hot water, I can run my squirrel stove for just heating.  Without a genny, I would be very reliant on my engine for power in the darker months, and engines go wrong from time to time.  The genny has other advantages too:  It's quieter than my engine, and creates far less vibration, it's more fuel efficient than my engine, it allows me to use high drain appliances like a washing machine without putting any stress on my batteries, it cuts down on wear and tear to my engine (the single most expensive thing on my boat).  The downside of a genny are:  You have to carry it about and they can be heavy, you have to make sure you're using it safely.  This forum has a tendency to get over-excited about unsafe gennys, when the reports of things going wrong usually involve the boater having done something utterly stupid like trying to install it inside their boat with a heath-robinson exhaust system.  Some simple rules:  Run the genny on the towpath, add petrol when it's on the towpath and only when the genny is turned off.  Have a suitable place to store your jerry can and your genny where the petrol or the fumes won't end up inside the cabin.

 

Running an electric immersion off a genny isn't a very efficient way of doing things and you'll need to run your genny for a long while at high revs, which can be anti social.  If you don't want to heat water with your engine then you have lots of other options:  A back boiler on your stove, a diesel heater, a gas boiler (what I have), an instant gas heater.

 

Finally, a simple point, clean your solar panels regularly (once a week or more).  They get surprisingly dirty and their output drops.

[blackrose]

I'm desperately and mysogenisticaly trying to find something to troll in the above post, but I can't! ?

[doratheexplorer]

3 minutes ago, blackrose said:

I'm desperately and mysogenisticaly trying to find something to troll in the above post, but I can't! ?

My post?

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, blackrose said:

I'm desperately and mysogenisticaly trying to find something to troll in the above post, but I can't! ?

 

Maybe because the poster has know;edge and experience of what (s)he is talking about.

Facts trump speculation.

[blackrose]

In general I do agree that heating water electrically without mains power is not the thing to do. However, when I'm running my battery charger from my 2.8kW rated generator I have plenty of spare generator output capacity so I run the washing machine at the same time and that's heating water. When the wash cycle has finished but the charge cycle still needs a couple more hours to finish I have switched on the immersion heater before. It does feel a bit odd but those increased generator revs don't use that much more fuel and since the generator is running anyway it seems stupid not to use it. Plus it saves a bit of gas which I'd otherwise need to burn to heat the water. It's a Honda generator so even at high revs it's still relatively quiet.

12 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

My post?

 

I was just joking

[Bacchus]

7 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 just as importantly when to stop charging them.

 

 

 

6 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

for lead acid batteries you are unlikely to do an ydamage by continuing charging after they are fully charged

 

 

Out of interest, I left my batteries on a trickle charge for the last couple of weeks to make sure they are in good condition for "allowed out" day. I went down to check them this morning, and the cranking battery was... well... not sure how smart my smart charger is. I think I may need to reduce the charge rate a smidgeon:-

 

 

[doratheexplorer]

4 minutes ago, blackrose said:

In general I do agree that heating water electrically without mains power is not the thing to do. However, when I'm running my battery charger from my 2.8kW rated generator I have plenty of spare generator output capacity so I run the washing machine at the same time and that's heating water. When the wash cycle has finished but the charge cycle still needs a couple more hours to finish I have switched on the immersion heater before. It does feel a bit odd but those increased generator revs don't use that much more fuel and since the generator is running anyway it seems stupid not to use it. Plus it saves a bit of gas which I'd otherwise need to burn to heat the water. It's a Honda generator so even at high revs it's still relatively quiet.

 

 

I've done that but it makes the genny get more noisy so I'd only do it in an emergency.  It's good to have a biggish genny with some power to spare.

5 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

I was just joking

Typical man

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Bacchus said:

 

 

 

Out of interest, I left my batteries on a trickle charge for the last couple of weeks to make sure they are in good condition for "allowed out" day. I went down to check them this morning, and the cranking battery was... well... not sure how smart my smart charger is. I think I may need to reduce the charge rate a smidgeon:-

 

 

 

 

When leaving batteries 'permanently' charging you do need to frequently check for internal shorts, battery water levels being low, heat in the battery and distorted 'ends'.

We have one very, very nearly explode in the middle of the night but fortunatley the CO alarm went off - the battery was so hot I coulnd't touch it but manged (whilst choking on the fumes) to disconnect the postive terminal.

 

I think we were literally seconds a way from a catastrophic failure.

 

You need to URGENTLY (It may be too late) get your engine room washed out with bicarb of soda LIBERALLY coat everything wash it down with a squirty bottle, in a few days time you will see where you have missed as things start to rot thru, go shiney and dissolve.

[blackrose]

44 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

 

Typical man

 

Sexist! ?

[Tony Brooks]

31 minutes ago, Bacchus said:

 

Out of interest, I left my batteries on a trickle charge for the last couple of weeks to make sure they are in good condition for "allowed out" day. I went down to check them this morning, and the cranking battery was... well... not sure how smart my smart charger is. I think I may need to reduce the charge rate a smidgeon:-

 

 

That is what happens when a cell develops an internal short and it's not detected by the owner.

 

There are normally enough signs to warn but too many boaters don't look for them and if they notice them they don't take notice.

 

First of all if you are monitoring the battery state of charge you find they are discharging deeper than before and also recharging is slower. At any state of charge the current tends to be a bit higher. Then you find individual cells need topping up more frequently and gas more than the rest under charge (a down mark for sealed batteries) and eventually you find that individual cells are hotter than the surrounding when under charge. Also, more than about 0.003 in hydrometer readings between cells.

 

On a related topic the short can be caused by the plates swelling by sulphation and pushing their way through the separator so if there are any signs of advanced sulphation like swollen battery ends, fast  discharge and a fast recharge time, or a discrepancy between state of charge indicated by a hydrometer test and rested voltage its time to keep a close eye on the batteries.

[LadyG]

3 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

But let's not dilute the good sense in the rest of the good lady's post about adjusting your lifestyle to onboard living by concentrating on that rather poor comment.

I haven't read the E field post or the Blackrose, but it is typical that they carp on, when my post essentially described how I get hot water. 

Edited April 13, 2021 by LadyG

[Bee]

4 hours ago, LadyG said:

I'm supposed to be a continuous cruiser: only twelve months out on the cut. I have a solid fuel stove and Webasto, there is hot water all the time. I think the Webasto can heat the calorifier tank in about  30 mins if I want a shower, or I can put the fire on for a few hours overnight, water is warm. There are shower facilities at most sanitary stations. I have solar panels which are esentially there to feed the fridge. The fridge is OFF in winter.

I have to adjust my lifestyle because I no longer live in a house. This means monitoring water, fuel, electricity, laundry, but I think that a boat for living off grid requires the boat to be set up for that purpose. 

To me , buying a petrol generator is a no no.

Despite engaging 'Argumentative and nit picking' mode I can't find much to disagree with there. Anyway, showers - who needs 'em. Paraffin and Fairy liquid keep my skin soft and fragrant and a shower twice a year is more than enough. Back to 'Calm and agreeable' mode again. Pass the wine.

[Chagall]

3 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I haven't read the E field post or the Blackrose, but it is typical that they carp on, when my post essentially described how I get hot water. 

...and you have over egged your point twice now! 

[LadyG]

Just now, Bee said:

Despite engaging 'Argumentative and nit picking' mode I can't find much to disagree with there. Anyway, showers - who needs 'em. Paraffin and Fairy liquid keep my skin soft and fragrant and a shower twice a year is more than enough. Back to 'Calm and agreeable' mode again. Pass the wine.

I think its cold enough to have a wee dram

4 minutes ago, Chagall said:

...and you have over egged your point twice now! 

Possibly, my tablet went in to scrambled mode. 

[Chagall]

4 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Possibly, my tablet went in to scrambled mode. 

If that reply was considered then it was priceless and I salute you! ?

[Bacchus]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

When leaving batteries 'permanently' charging you do need to frequently check for internal shorts, battery water levels being low, heat in the battery and distorted 'ends'.

We have one very, very nearly explode in the middle of the night but fortunatley the CO alarm went off - the battery was so hot I coulnd't touch it but manged (whilst choking on the fumes) to disconnect the postive terminal.

 

I think we were literally seconds a way from a catastrophic failure.

 

You need to URGENTLY (It may be too late) get your engine room washed out with bicarb of soda LIBERALLY coat everything wash it down with a squirty bottle, in a few days time you will see where you have missed as things start to rot thru, go shiney and dissolve.

 

 

Nasty things batteries. I have heard of this sort of thing happening, but didn't expect it to happen to mine!

 

I went straight to Aldi and got a couple of tubs of bicarbonate of soda, and have washed the surrounding area with a few gallons of water. The REALLY scary thing is that it will have splashed over the adjacent 400 litre diesel tank... I can't see any signs of damage, but will monitor it closely

2 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

That is what happens when a cell develops an internal short and it's not detected by the owner.

 

There are normally enough signs to warn but too many boaters don't look for them and if they notice them they don't take notice.

 

First of all if you are monitoring the battery state of charge you find they are discharging deeper than before and also recharging is slower. At any state of charge the current tends to be a bit higher. Then you find individual cells need topping up more frequently and gas more than the rest under charge (a down mark for sealed batteries) and eventually you find that individual cells are hotter than the surrounding when under charge. Also, more than about 0.003 in hydrometer readings between cells.

 

On a related topic the short can be caused by the plates swelling by sulphation and pushing their way through the separator so if there are any signs of advanced sulphation like swollen battery ends, fast  discharge and a fast recharge time, or a discrepancy between state of charge indicated by a hydrometer test and rested voltage its time to keep a close eye on the batteries.

 

 

Trouble with leisure boats is that one doesn't watch the batteries quite as closely as perhaps one should. It was the cranking battery that went pop, and they don't show the signs of fatigue perhaps as much. I blame myself (I took "maintenance free" a bit too literally). I think things could have been worse (I could have been peering into the battery box wondering what the smell was...!)

[blackrose]

2 hours ago, LadyG said:

I haven't read the E field post or the Blackrose, but it is typical that they carp on, when my post essentially described how I get hot water. 

 

And it's just as typical that you carp on too.

 

If you have the feeling that I dislike you, you are correct. I took that attitude ever since you sent me an unsolicited PM and called me a f*ckwit several months ago. That was the first interaction I'd had with you. Prior to that I didn't even know you were a forum member. And you've got the nerve to call me a troll! ?

Edited April 13, 2021 by blackrose