How to value?

[Davemayne]

Have a boat to sell and aware that once people realize its probate will try and take advantage of the situation "including brokers". Thoughts or suggestions greatly appreciated. The boat is a 45ft - beam - 6ft10 built by Streethay - struggling to identify the real age of the boat, have been advised its likely pre 2001...

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Davemayne said:

Have a boat to sell and aware that once people realize its probate will try and take advantage of the situation "including brokers". Thoughts or suggestions greatly appreciated. The boat is a 45ft - beam - 6ft10 built by Streethay - struggling to identify the real age of the boat, have been advised its likely pre 2001...

 

 

If it is post 1998 build then the HIN (Hull Identification Number) and the date will be marked on the hull stern (either inside the engine room, or externally.

 

A broker gets paid a commission on what ever he achieves as a sale price, so his '10%' is better if he sells it for £50,000 than if he sells it for £30,000. He will try and maximise your price for you.

 

There are brokers who are a bit naughty and will undervalue it, buy it themselves, and then sell it on at a £10,000 higher price. Suggest you ask for recommendations for brokers who have 'gone above the norm' for a seller.

[GUMPY]

If it has a BW  licence number you can work out its age from this list.

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=8409&p=124088

 

Unfortunately it only goes to 2000 but if it's 2001 it will be below 506785 as that was issued in Feb 2002

Edited April 12, 2021 by Loddon

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, Loddon said:

If it has a BW  licence number you can work out its age from this list.

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=8409&p=124088

 

 

 

Unless it was on non-C&RT waters for some years first.

My boat was built 2003 but did not come on C&RT waters until 2015 so the reg number is not always an accurate guide to age - all it will show you is that is older than a certain year.

[Athy]

Welcome to the forum.

Valuation is not easy, it's not like cars where a 2001 example of any particular make and model can be valued within a fairly narrow price band.

I'm not sure that it's in the interest of brokers to "take advantage"; they sell the boat for you at a fixed percentage, so it's in their interest to get the highest possible price for it.

If it's on CART waters, its index number may be a good indication of its age. For example our last boat, registered in 2001 as it happens, had the number number 506430.

[GUMPY]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Unless it was on non-C&RT waters for some years first.

My boat was built 2003 but did not come on C&RT waters until 2015 so the reg number is not always an accurate guide to age - all it will show you is that is older than a certain year.

As was Parglena but there are few like that compared to the number of boats in total.

[Davemayne]

Thanks - now dated the boat as 2001.

8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

If it is post 1998 build then the HIN (Hull Identification Number) and the date will be marked on the hull stern (either inside the engine room, or externally.

 

A broker gets paid a commission on what ever he achieves as a sale price, so his '10%' is better if he sells it for £50,000 than if he sells it for £30,000. He will try and maximise your price for you.

 

There are brokers who are a bit naughty and will undervalue it, buy it themselves, and then sell it on at a £10,000 higher price. Suggest you ask for recommendations for brokers who have 'gone above the norm' for a seller.

Thanks good advice - found the number and have a little more to go on - there is a local broker showing interest, feels like we should get a couple of quotes. 

[Athy]

1 minute ago, Davemayne said:

Thanks - now dated the boat as 2001.

Good. So we're dealing with a 2001 45-footer. Streethay Wharf is a well-established company but I'm not sure that they actually built or fitted many boats themselves.

   Do you know the web site "Apollo Duck narrowboats"? Hundreds of boats are advertised for sale on there; look for 45-footers and note the asking prices of boats of that length which are about the same age. Of course, as on the roads, there are "Fords" and "Rolls-Royces", but such a search should help you get a rough idea of how much to ask for.

[Davemayne]

Great thanks for sharing - huge variation in pricing!

[Athy]

1 minute ago, Davemayne said:

Great thanks for sharing - huge variation in pricing!

Yes, I just had a look and found four boats, ranging from one from an unknown builder at I think £32,000 to a John White (well-reputed builder) at £43,000 - though bear in mind these are asking, prices, and many boats are sold for a couple of thousand pounds less than their advertised price.

 

My feeling is that if your first figure is a "3" you will be in the right area. If the boat is either exceptionally well maintained, or exceptionally knackered, then adjust accordingly.

[Davemayne]

Funny enough that's where I have ended up thinking it had to be worth £30K all day long. All proceeds simply go into an inheritance fund for his 11 year old daughter - just want to make sure we do the right thing by him. Appreciate your advice and guidance.

[Richard10002]

4 minutes ago, Davemayne said:

Funny enough that's where I have ended up thinking it had to be worth £30K all day long. All proceeds simply go into an inheritance fund for his 11 year old daughter - just want to make sure we do the right thing by him. Appreciate your advice and guidance.

 

Given the hot state of the market, and the fact that you will probably be negotiated down at initial offer stage, and then again after survey, and subject to a brokers opinion, (hopefully genuine), it sounds like you could test the market at £37,995, or £35,000, and see what happens.

 

I would guess that, if it is worth over £30k, the above asking prices would not discourage any viewings that might buy in this price bracket, and you might be pleasantly surprised.

[Davemayne]

6 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

 

Given the hot state of the market, and the fact that you will probably be negotiated down at initial offer stage, and then again after survey, and subject to a brokers opinion, (hopefully genuine), it sounds like you could test the market at £37,995, or £35,000, and see what happens.

 

I would guess that, if it is worth over £30k, the above asking prices would not discourage any viewings that might buy in this price bracket, and you might be pleasantly surprised.

Great advice - thanks!

[Athy]

Now, brokers. It's worth using one because they weed out the wallies and do the hard work for you. For doing so, they will typically take about 5% of the achieved sale price.

Like boats, they vary as well. Is the boat in the Midlands? If so I'd recommend ABNB (from personal experience). They will do show-rounds of boats on their home moorings within a reasonable distance of their base. If it's elsewhere, I'm sure that other members will be able to suggest similarly honest firms.

[Davemayne]

Its in Gloucester

 

[MrsM]

Hi Dave. I'm a new boat owner - we bought our first used boat this time last year. I've been following the market closely for the last 5 years or thereabouts and prices are very punchy at the moment. A bit like when you sell a house, it is easy to come down in price but not go up. Not having any idea what your boat is, but assuming it is in good order, I would expect an asking price in the mid to high £30ks. 45ft is a popular size for new leisure boaters who want something easy to manoeuvre to holiday on. We visited numerous brokers when we were looking and would second ABNB as being stand-out people to deal with. We ended up buying privately rather than through a broker and it was all very straightforward (we were perhaps lucky in this respect). There are loads of Facebook narrowboating groups and boats are getting a lot of interest as soon as they are mentioned. It depends how involved you want to be and how confident you feel handling things yourself. Good luck and I hope you raise lots for the inheritance fund. If you are able to share more information about the boat the clever peeps here will be able to give you more specific advice I'm sure. M

Edited April 12, 2021 by MrsM
Clarity & spelling d'oh!

[Tracy D'arth]

Stick it on ebay as an auction item, you can pull the sale whenever you wish. Advise that it is for sale elsewhere and may be withdrawn without notice. That should in a week establish a fair asking price. Start it at £25.999 without reserve say and see what happens.

[MrsM]

2 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Stick it on ebay as an auction item, you can pull the sale whenever you wish. Advise that it is for sale elsewhere and may be withdrawn without notice. That should in a week establish a fair asking price. Start it at £25.999 without reserve say and see what happens.

Good idea - nothing to lose. We very very nearly bought a narrowboat off eBay last year and were due to be first to view it, but just got pipped by someone that clicked on Buy-it-now. We've bought and sold caravans, cars, motorbikes, a campervan and a huge 6 berth motorhome on eBay and it's always worked flawlessly (again we've been lucky!).

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, MrsM said:

Good idea - nothing to lose. We very very nearly bought a narrowboat off eBay last year and were due to be first to view it, but just got pipped by someone that clicked on Buy-it-now. We've bought and sold caravans, cars, motorbikes, a campervan and a huge 6 berth motorhome on eBay and it's always worked flawlessly (again we've been lucky!).

 

 

I've often wondered how it works :

 

You click on BIN at (say) £40,000 and apparently that is a legal agreement to buy at that price.

 

You then have a survey (or are you not allowed a survey ?) surveyor says its value is £35,000.

 

You offer £35,000 seller says we have an agreement to buy it at £40,000

 

Or 

 

After you have clicked BIN your contact the seller and say I want to have a survey but my Surveyor cannot do it for a month ..........................

 

Or, 

 

Do you arrange to have a survey before you click BIN ?

[MrsM]

As far as I understand it if you click on Buy-it-now then you have technically agreed to do just that. Quite how that could be enforced, for example should a boat have a bad survey and the buyer decides they don't want to proceed like you suggest, I really don't know. The reason we didn't click on BiN was because we spoke to the seller about viewing and getting a survey booked asap and didn't believe for a minute anyone would risk clicking BiN (neither did the seller - he hadn't even realised he had activated the BiN option on his listing)! We really regretted not doing so. We were due to see the boat first thing in the morning and then it was going to be taken off sale. I presume the sale went through on BiN very quickly and without a hitch, because we were on standby in case it didn't. When we sold our motorhome by eBay auction in 2014 I put on the listing that prospective buyers should come and view and carry out all inspections prior to bidding but the person that bought it didn't do that. Madness! I think eBay is very useful for establishing a market price and having your item seen by a large number of people. When we were boat hunting we were glued to Apollo Duck and eBay updates as well as all the broker sites and lists. 

 

"You offer £35,000 seller says we have an agreement to buy it at £40,000"

 

In the above situation the seller is not obliged to sell and I would expect the transaction to be cancelled.

Edited April 12, 2021 by MrsM

[Hudds Lad]

as the seller, you'd still be liable to pay the listing fees to eBay calculated on the BIN price of £40k no matter what you actually settled for

 

personally i wouldn't list/sell/buy for any amount of money on eBay that i wasn't prepared to lose, but that's just me.

[David Mack]

13 minutes ago, MrsM said:

 

"You offer £35,000 seller says we have an agreement to buy it at £40,000"

 

In the above situation the seller is not obliged to sell and I would expect the transaction to be cancelled.

 

The seller is not obliged to sell, but the buyer would be in breach of contract. So in theory the seller could sue for his losses, which would include any resale costs and the difference between £40k and what it actually sells for (if less). In practice I can't imagine many sellers going down that route.

[restlessnomad]

ebay has non binding bid policy for high value items like properties or motor (not sure about boats). For small value items its often not worth the hassle for seller to enforce the law.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/rules-policies-buyers/nonbinding-bid-policy?id=4228

Edited April 12, 2021 by restlessnomad

[MrsM]

26 minutes ago, restlessnomad said:

ebay has non binding bid policy for high value items like properties or motor (not sure about boats). For small value items its often not worth the hassle for seller to enforce the law.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/rules-policies-buyers/nonbinding-bid-policy?id=4228

That is sensible - a bit of a safety net for buyers and sellers. 

[Nightwatch]

8 hours ago, Loddon said:

If it has a BW  licence number you can work out its age from this list.

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=8409&p=124088

 

Unfortunately it only goes to 2000 but if it's 2001 it will be below 506785 as that was issued in Feb 2002

The number above is very very nearly my number. Our boat is nye on 30 years old. Our number is 5 digits.