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Trees hacked down with a chainsaw on the River Thames between Walton-on-Thames and Weybridge


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1 hour ago, Jerra said:

 

I am still wondering where the idea Elms must be cloned and don't grow from seed has come from.

To add to this, again a bit of a guess but if a tree can be propagated easily from suckers why bother with the faff of seeds, it's fairly typical of modern nursery stock practices,  lining out a few thousand hardwood cuttings is much easier than creating seed beds, lifting, transplanting etc.

I also suspect this would be similar to what happened historically as well a farmer would use what's available and easy, certainly not faff with seeds if other options are available,  maybe the none viable seed thing came from this, originally more "don't bother with seeds" evolved into what is assumed now

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46 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

 

From the people who do the cloning perhaps?

Much like the “don’t feed bread to ducks” idea is thought to have been started by a duck food manufacturer

Elm are easy to propagate vegetatively.   The school I was working at was presented with a Sapporo Autumn Gold as part of a scheme run by David Bellamy.   Despite the fact it was patented and so propagation was illegal.  It was clear how to take cuttings which is after all the easiest way to clone. 

 

Perhaps they are trying to make folk forget about cuttings and buy from them, you  may be right.

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33 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

To add to this, again a bit of a guess but if a tree can be propagated easily from suckers why bother with the faff of seeds, it's fairly typical of modern nursery stock practices,  lining out a few thousand hardwood cuttings is much easier than creating seed beds, lifting, transplanting etc.

I also suspect this would be similar to what happened historically as well a farmer would use what's available and easy, certainly not faff with seeds if other options are available,  maybe the none viable seed thing came from this, originally more "don't bother with seeds" evolved into what is assumed now

All of course true, but thinking back to before DED there were Elms growing in places where they clearly weren't planted.   These must have been some of the few seedlings.

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2 hours ago, tree monkey said:

 

I understand what happened with elms is because they are so easy to propagate vegetatively the genetic diversity was poor so less able to throw up resistance to DED

 

 

I've only skimmed this but it mentions the lack of genetic diversity 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulmus_minor_'Atinia'

Basically what happened on the French canals with Plane trees, all the trees set at the same time and from the same stock

12 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Elm are easy to propagate vegetatively.   The school I was working at was presented with a Sapporo Autumn Gold as part of a scheme run by David Bellamy.   Despite the fact it was patented and so propagation was illegal.  It was clear how to take cuttings which is after all the easiest way to clone. 

 

Perhaps they are trying to make folk forget about cuttings and buy from them, you  may be right.

We have one, bought three as we live at Elms Cottage. Got the same paperwork.

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11 hours ago, Jerra said:

Do you have a reference for that please?   I can find lots of references telling me how little treatment they need before planting the seeds.

 

I can't understand why we had elms all over the place without them propagating naturally.

 

I could believe some of the resistant varieties bred e.g. Sapporo autumn gold  can't be grown from seed as it is a hybrid but not that all elms can't be.   So a reference would be very much appreciated and useful.

Here's one https://www.avelandtrees.co.uk/index.php/2017/08/planting-elms-in-the-british-countryside/

 

Note that it refers to English Elms.  Other types of elm can be grown from seed.

 

N

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5 minutes ago, Theo said:

Here's one https://www.avelandtrees.co.uk/index.php/2017/08/planting-elms-in-the-british-countryside/

 

Note that it refers to English Elms.  Other types of elm can be grown from seed.

 

N

How strange.

 

Plants for a Future say about English Elm (Ulmus procera):

 

Propagation

Seed - if sown in a cold frame or outdoor seedbed as soon as ripe it usually germinates in a few days. A high proportion of the seed is not viable but seed is normally freely produced and can be sown thickly to take into account the poor viability. 

 

https://pfaf.org/user/Plant.aspx?LatinName=Ulmus+procera

 

I think I am going to have to dig further into this.

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Just now, Jerra said:

How strange.

 

Plants for a Future say about English Elm (Ulmus procera):

 

Propagation

Seed - if sown in a cold frame or outdoor seedbed as soon as ripe it usually germinates in a few days. A high proportion of the seed is not viable but seed is normally freely produced and can be sown thickly to take into account the poor viability. 

 

https://pfaf.org/user/Plant.aspx?LatinName=Ulmus+procera

 

I think I am going to have to dig further into this.

And here's another clone claim: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-english-elm-is-an-asexual-clone-imported-by-rome-6xff5b8znh8

 

I don't know what to think now!  I had heard the Roman import claim before and that is what I took to be incontrovertible truth until now!

 

N

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13 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Basically what happened on the French canals with Plane trees, all the trees set at the same time and from the same stock

We have one, bought three as we live at Elms Cottage. Got the same paperwork.

Nasty one that (Ceratocystis platani) it kills quick and spreads via natural root grafts, which is why it has such an impact when the trees are planted as an avenue 

 

9 minutes ago, Theo said:

Here's one https://www.avelandtrees.co.uk/index.php/2017/08/planting-elms-in-the-british-countryside/

 

Note that it refers to English Elms.  Other types of elm can be grown from seed.

 

N

I've done some digging and I think it's more accurate to say doesn't produce many viable seed, the blog you linked to says no viable seed

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Just now, Theo said:

And here's another clone claim: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-english-elm-is-an-asexual-clone-imported-by-rome-6xff5b8znh8

 

I don't know what to think now!  I had heard the Roman import claim before and that is what I took to be incontrovertible truth until now!

 

N

I can readily accept that where Elms were wanted they either took cuttings or used suckers.   However from my own experience I have come across Elms growing where nobody would have planted them and with no sign of a previous tree to have grown this one from suckers.

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2 minutes ago, Theo said:

And here's another clone claim: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-english-elm-is-an-asexual-clone-imported-by-rome-6xff5b8znh8

 

I don't know what to think now!  I had heard the Roman import claim before and that is what I took to be incontrovertible truth until now!

 

N

And heare's another interesting article: https://resistantelms.co.uk/elms/

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1 minute ago, Theo said:

And here's another clone claim: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-english-elm-is-an-asexual-clone-imported-by-rome-6xff5b8znh8

 

I don't know what to think now!  I had heard the Roman import claim before and that is what I took to be incontrovertible truth until now!

 

N

That article is basically what the Wiki article I posted to earlier says. I suspect the none viable seed has come from just a low viable seed count

2 minutes ago, Jerra said:

I can readily accept that where Elms were wanted they either took cuttings or used suckers.   However from my own experience I have come across Elms growing where nobody would have planted them and with no sign of a previous tree to have grown this one from suckers.

I don't want to diss your ID skills but could they have been wych elm not English elm 

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1 minute ago, tree monkey said:

I don't want to diss your ID skills but could they have been wych elm not English elm 

We felled the trees in question when local trees started to show DED, and wych Elm is fairly resistant to DED.

 

Is the wood of Wych the same as ENglish Elm?  The trees were planked (they came from our school grounds) and made into library tables and benches by the craft department.   The sw mill said it was elm.

 

As the planking suggest the tree had a good straight trunk Wych elm to me is more branched.

 

Before you say "ah school ground they will have been planted" the part of the school grounds was known as "the vicarage garden" because that is what it had been.  The structure of the garden could still be seen and the tree was in a place which had been a drive.

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29 minutes ago, Jerra said:

We felled the trees in question when local trees started to show DED, and wych Elm is fairly resistant to DED.

 

Is the wood of Wych the same as ENglish Elm?  The trees were planked (they came from our school grounds) and made into library tables and benches by the craft department.   The sw mill said it was elm.

 

As the planking suggest the tree had a good straight trunk Wych elm to me is more branched.

 

Before you say "ah school ground they will have been planted" the part of the school grounds was known as "the vicarage garden" because that is what it had been.  The structure of the garden could still be seen and the tree was in a place which had been a drive.

It was more the conversation about english elm seeds being of poor viability and more likely to be clones as opposed to wych elm which is more able to propagate from seed, I don't know the difference, if any, between the timbers.

The ID differences are subtle and I often miss the ID, wych elm leaves are bigger and have a more pronounced horns at the tip, theres something about the roundness of the leaf base as well, like I say subtle 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Paddy and his mate looking for a job came across a sign ''TREE FELLERS WANTED'', Bejezz said Paddy, that's no good they want three fellers not two.

Edited by bizzard
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7 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Paddy and his mate looking for a job came across a sign ''TREE FELLERS WANTED'', Bejezz said Paddy, that's no good they want three fellers not two.

Oooh, you're in trouble. McBee

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52 minutes ago, Jackofalltrades said:

If charged and found guilty then it will be interesting to find out what the motive was.

 

 

Indeed. It will be a big local story down here. Will keep all appraised. 

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I was thinking along the same lines as @nbfiresprite that it could be a cover-up akin to Agatha Christie’s The ABC Murders or Lee Child’s One Shot. Of course it could just be some fruitloop with a chainsaw, and if it is lets be glad he stuck to trees.

Edited by Hudds Lad
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A few years ago several of the balance beams on Walsall locks were cut off - turned out to be two guys with an old cross cut saw trying to see how quick they could cut through - some sort of fitness thing.

 

 

springy

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1 hour ago, Sir Percy said:

I don't know if this thought has occurred to anyone yet: the incidents started happening just after the week when Lidl were selling cordless chainsaws for £50.

 

They must be good then

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