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Trees hacked down with a chainsaw on the River Thames between Walton-on-Thames and Weybridge


nbfiresprite

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1 hour ago, Jerra said:

An interesting hypothesis.   Do you have a reference for that please.

 

Catbehaviourist.com says "Foxes pose little danger to cats. But, like any other dog, foxes will chase cats. Generally, though, when faced with the claws and teeth of a cat, foxes will back away, knowing they will probably suffer a serious injury in any fight."

 

Foxes are nasty vermin that kill chickens. We've lost a few over the years, and they don't even eat them. I don't blame any fox for behaving like a fox, any more than I blame a heron for attacking ornamental pond fish. 

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6 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

Foxes are nasty vermin that kill chickens. We've lost a few over the years, and they don't even eat them. I don't blame any fox for behaving like a fox, any more than I blame a heron for attacking ornamental pond fish. 

I am aware of foxes and what they get up to but I have no evidence that foxes regularly kill cats.  The last data I saw suggested around 80 per 10,000 fox/cat incidents.

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You think foxes are nasty, you should see the damage lovable Mr Brock the badger will do to chickens. 
We were woken in the night by noises from our hen house and looked out in time to see one clambering out of the egg box. The carnage inside was horrible - he had ripped them up. At least a fox does a clean kill. 

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Mebbe it's the sailing club wanting more wind on the water.

 

I jest - but I do recall not far from there, the Civil Service sailing boat club had load of trees felled on Ellis Lake Shepperton (90 acres) to get more wind on their lake. They did it through correct permissions however.

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We have a mature wood at the back of our garden, several trees overhang with huge horizontal branches.   Our neighbour used to keep chickens in a coop that was moved around to keep it fresh.  A buzzard habitually spent much of the day in an overhanging branch keeping his greedy eyes on the chickens.  If one of them escaped I reckon it wouldn't have stood a chance.

 

On a sunny day the resident fox comes out of his hidey-hole in the wood and sunbathes on a grassy mound of earth where he can keep half an eye open for any threats.

 

A family of badgers used to make daily visits across our lawn, that left a veritable footpath through the grass, to scrounge food from our patio door.

 

On a couple of occasions a deer has come out of the wood and stood at the edge of the lawn for a few minutes, looking somewhat nervous and confused.

 

........................  and all happening, not in the countryside, but in the lovely city of Bristol. 

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11 hours ago, Jerra said:

I am aware of foxes and what they get up to but I have no evidence that foxes regularly kill cats.  The last data I saw suggested around 80 per 10,000 fox/cat incidents.

Cats can be a pretty efficient killer in their own right 

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2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Cats can be a pretty efficient killer in their own right 

Of course they are which is probably why the "cat behaviour" site suggests that face with a cat's teeth and claws foxes general give up an attack.

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40 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Cats can be a pretty efficient killer in their own right 

2 ex mice in galley this morning, one was just a guts pile, the other one had been carefully dismembered and looked like a school dissection, one leg outstretched, tail in right place and guts in a long line.

Sorry if you are having lunch.

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On 09/04/2021 at 13:31, ditchcrawler said:

This is the one cut down near us, someone set a plant in the hollow centre. 

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I have a sucker from the root of the one cut down in the village, whether it will be resistant who knows, I can but try. All the others succumb when they get about 20 foot tall.

 

Highly unlikely to be resistant as is is a clone of the "parent" and, therefore, genetically identical.   That's why elms are so susceptible.  They are (nearly?) all clones.  Apparently they can't be propagated from seed.

16 hours ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

Foxes are nasty vermin that kill chickens. We've lost a few over the years, and they don't even eat them. I don't blame any fox for behaving like a fox, any more than I blame a heron for attacking ornamental pond fish. 

I don't believe that foxes kill for the fun of it and waste their prey as many claim.  When we kept chickens three of them were killed by a fox.  He took one and left the other two.  I left the dead chickens lying where he left them and sure enough, he came back and collected them on successive nights.

 

N

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4 hours ago, Theo said:

Highly unlikely to be resistant as is is a clone of the "parent" and, therefore, genetically identical.   That's why elms are so susceptible.  They are (nearly?) all clones.  Apparently they can't be propagated from seed.

 

But this one was resistant, that is why we are hopeful 

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1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

But this one was resistant, that is why we are hopeful 

It might have just been isolated from other elms.

It's likely to sucker as well, which is why small elm trees are so common, the disease kills the top and leaves the roots

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On 09/04/2021 at 12:56, tree monkey said:

Ahh grey squirrels, nightmare things,  cause loads of damage but have the saving grace of being cute so convincing people that they should be controlled is almost impossible, it does go on but considering the potential reaction it is kept fairly quiet

Very tasty though if not filled with lead ?

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On 10/04/2021 at 15:49, Theo said:

Highly unlikely to be resistant as is is a clone of the "parent" and, therefore, genetically identical.   That's why elms are so susceptible.  They are (nearly?) all clones.  Apparently they can't be propagated from seed.

 

Do you have a reference for that please?   I can find lots of references telling me how little treatment they need before planting the seeds.

 

I can't understand why we had elms all over the place without them propagating naturally.

 

I could believe some of the resistant varieties bred e.g. Sapporo autumn gold  can't be grown from seed as it is a hybrid but not that all elms can't be.   So a reference would be very much appreciated and useful.

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14 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Do you have a reference for that please?   I can find lots of references telling me how little treatment they need before planting the seeds.

 

I can't understand why we had elms all over the place without them propagating naturally.

 

I could believe some of the resistant varieties bred e.g. Sapporo autumn gold  can't be grown from seed as it is a hybrid but not that all elms can't be.   So a reference would be very much appreciated and useful.

https://www.doityourself.com/stry/how-to-grow-an-elm-tree-from-a-seed#:~:text=Elm seeds can be germinated,dormant until the next season.

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8 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

Thank you.  That confirms what I believed was the case.   UK Elm (Ulmus procera) will germinate from seed with no treatment and the American Elm (Ulmus american) requires a period of winter dormancy before germination.   The winter dormancy is not uncommon for seeds and can sometimes be speeded up by keeping in a fridge for a while.

 

I am still wondering where the idea Elms must be cloned and don't grow from seed has come from.

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8 hours ago, Jerra said:

Do you have a reference for that please?   I can find lots of references telling me how little treatment they need before planting the seeds.

 

I can't understand why we had elms all over the place without them propagating naturally.

 

I could believe some of the resistant varieties bred e.g. Sapporo autumn gold  can't be grown from seed as it is a hybrid but not that all elms can't be.   So a reference would be very much appreciated and useful.

The idea that elm don't produce viable seed seems to be a bit of a myth, it's certainly one I was aware of and accepted but I am unable to find any actual proof.

I suspect they may produce a lot of none viable seeds and possibly they don't stay viable for long but that's a guess.

I understand what happened with elms is because they are so easy to propagate vegetatively the genetic diversity was poor so less able to throw up resistance to DED

 

 

I've only skimmed this but it mentions the lack of genetic diversity 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulmus_minor_'Atinia'

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1 minute ago, tree monkey said:

The idea that elm don't produce viable seed seems to be a bit of a myth, it's certainly one I was aware of and accepted but I am unable to find any actual proof.

I suspect they may produce a lot of none viable seeds and possibly they don't stay viable for long but that's a guess.

I understand what happened with elms is because they are so easy to propagate vegetatively they genetic diversity was poor so less able to throw up resistance to DED

I can see the suggestion of fewer viable seeds or short period of viability.   The idea that Elm can't grow from seed is to me illogical as Elms (before DED)  were wide spread and in all sorts of situation, to suggest they had all been deliberately planted seems inconceivable to me.

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4 minutes ago, Jerra said:

I can see the suggestion of fewer viable seeds or short period of viability.   The idea that Elm can't grow from seed is to me illogical as Elms (before DED)  were wide spread and in all sorts of situation, to suggest they had all been deliberately planted seems inconceivable to me.

There must be something going on because elms produce a lot of seed and yet we see few elm seedlings 

 

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49 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

There must be something going on because elms produce a lot of seed and yet we see few elm seedlings 

 

Digging around a little two thoughts come to mind.

 

1.  It seems the percentage of "fruit" with viable seeds is indeed low.

2.  The seed needs sown asap after it ripens.  To quote one reference about gathering seed for germination "by June all will be gone from the trees".   So is it possible that with our messed up climate at the moment the seeds are often not finding suitable conditions.   Too dry, too wet, too cold etc?

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26 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Digging around a little two thoughts come to mind.

 

1.  It seems the percentage of "fruit" with viable seeds is indeed low.

2.  The seed needs sown asap after it ripens.  To quote one reference about gathering seed for germination "by June all will be gone from the trees".   So is it possible that with our messed up climate at the moment the seeds are often not finding suitable conditions.   Too dry, too wet, too cold etc?

It sounds likely, I must say though elm seedlings have never been something I've been aware of, unlike for example Oak, Birch, Beech and so on.

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1 hour ago, Jerra said:

I am still wondering where the idea Elms must be cloned and don't grow from seed has come from.

 

From the people who do the cloning perhaps?

Much like the “don’t feed bread to ducks” idea is thought to have been started by a duck food manufacturer

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