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Honda EU 22i generator ????


Karl

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Hi all, I have a relatively new Victron 3000 (3kw) inverter charger and live aboard during the winter on mains hook up. During the summer I use the engine to charge batteries when not cruising. I also have two small solar panels but when not cruising start the engine for a couple of hours daily to charge batteries. I am now considering purchasing a Honda EU22i generator as I have seen these used on the cut. My question is will this be powerful enough and match my inverter. I have 4 110 amp lead acid batteries to charge. I want to plug it straight into the mains hook up outlet which I have seen others do with this inverter.

reason being it is quieter and cheaper to run, will not add hours to my engine and if I had an inverter it is good for emergency should I have engine or charging problems. Any advise or suggestions would be good.

many thanks.

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You do not (cannot) power your inverter from a generator.

The inverter takes its (12v) power supply from the batteries.

 

If you are running the generator you would have the inverter switched off, and you use the battery charger to charge the batteries, and can also run 230v AC appliances at the same time (up to maximum wattage).

 

We need to know what size and make of battery charger you have to confirm if the generator would power it, but it would need to be a very 'big one' that could not be run off that generator.

 

Inverter takes 12v from the batteries and makes it into 230v.

 

A generator makes 230v so you do not need the inverter when the generator is running.

The generator can also power the battery charger, to recharge the batteries with the 'power' the inverter has previously used.

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9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

You do not (cannot) power your inverter from a generator.

The inverter takes its (12v) power supply from the batteries.

 

If you are running the generator you would have the inverter switched off, and you use the battery charger to charge the batteries, and can also run 230v AC appliances at the same time (up to maximum wattage).

 

We need to know what size and make of battery charger you have to confirm if the generator would power it, but it would need to be a very 'big one' that could not be run off that generator.

 

Inverter takes 12v from the batteries and makes it into 230v.

 

A generator makes 230v so you do not need the inverter when the generator is running.

The generator can also power the battery charger, to recharge the batteries with the 'power' the inverter has previously used.

The OP says its its an inverter charger....so I'm guessing its about a 100a charger... which might be ok and of course you can limit the input current on a victron combi with the remote or via the dip switches

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4 minutes ago, frangar said:

The OP says its its an inverter charger....so I'm guessing its about a 100a charger... which might be ok and of course you can limit the input current on a victron combi with the remote or via the dip switches

 

Completely agree, but when it comes to electricity I find it better to not make assumptions or guesses when the answer to a simple question can provide an accurate figure.

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The Honda generator is an excellent choice for reliable mains electricity to re-charge your batteries or supply mains power when needed. The sensible thing is to have an arrangement whereby the generator can provide power only when the 230 V AC outlet from the the inverter is physically disconnected.

This will avoid any possibility of serious damage caused by having both power supplies connected at the same time.

Edited by NB Alnwick
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The EU22i is rated at 1800w continuous. In theory that's 150 amps at 12v, but in reality the inverter charger will draw more than 1800w at 150 amp charge current due to losses in the transformer. However I imagine it would cope with 100 amps just fine. 

You have a 440 amp hour battery bank, so to get the most life out of the batteries in an ideal world you'd be trickle charging them at 1/10 of their capacity.......44 amps. But that's a whole other conversation!

 

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Some seem to have missed that this is an inverter charger. If it is a Victron 3000va inverter charger, the chances are that it is almost certainly 120A charger which, at 14.5V to 15V would draw close to 1800w, so at the margins of a Honda EU22i.

 

It would be good if the OP could tell us the exact model of inverter charger, but I don’t think there is a current 12v 3000w version that has anything other than a 120A charger.

 

If the Honda can’t cope with the 120A charger, I think that Victron chargers have a facility to operate the charger at varying %ages of full power, (75%, 50%, 25% ???).

 

 

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On 06/04/2021 at 16:21, Karl said:

Hi all, I have a relatively new Victron 3000 (3kw) inverter charger and live aboard during the winter on mains hook up. During the summer I use the engine to charge batteries when not cruising. I also have two small solar panels but when not cruising start the engine for a couple of hours daily to charge batteries. I am now considering purchasing a Honda EU22i generator as I have seen these used on the cut. My question is will this be powerful enough and match my inverter. I have 4 110 amp lead acid batteries to charge. I want to plug it straight into the mains hook up outlet which I have seen others do with this inverter.

reason being it is quieter and cheaper to run, will not add hours to my engine and if I had an inverter it is good for emergency should I have engine or charging problems. Any advise or suggestions would be good.

many thanks.

 

Having determined that the generator will run your charger, the question you now need to consider is how are you going to make it all safe?

 

Where are you going to store the generator? Where are you going to store petrol? Do you realise that it's not really safe to run or refuel the generator on a narrowboat? Do you understand the risks of carbon monoxide from the generator to you and your neighbours if the wind is in the wrong direction? Have you considered any earthing arrangements for the generator? It has its own 'floating earth' but relying on that may render your boats breakers redundant.

 

Also, how are you going to prevent your new generator from being stolen? Thieves love getting their hands on portable generators and outboard motors because they've got decent resale values and are easy to pass on quickly.

Edited by blackrose
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If your batteries are in need of a decent charge a Honda 2 eu will not cope unless you have the remote to reduce the amps, i believe there are some internal switches that do the same job but that's far from ideal. It seems pointless to set up your charging system at a less than optimum level as a baseline. 

  

 

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7 hours ago, BWM said:

If your batteries are in need of a decent charge a Honda 2 eu will not cope unless you have the remote to reduce the amps, i believe there are some internal switches that do the same job but that's far from ideal. It seems pointless to set up your charging system at a less than optimum level as a baseline. 

  

 

 

How do you account for RufusR's first hand experience above? If required the Victron's charge output could be reduced from 120amps to say 90amps so I don't see the problem. I only charge a 450 amp bank at 70 amps and it's fine. I get them fully charged in a few hours depending on the state of charge when I start. It's certainly not pointless. Quite the opposite, you do what you need to do to get them charged.

Edited by blackrose
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9 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

How do you account for RufusR's first hand experience above? If required the Victron's charge output could be reduced from 120amps to say 90amps so I don't see the problem. I only charge a 450 amp bank at 70 amps and it's fine. I get them fully charged in a few hours depending on the state of charge when I start. It's certainly not pointless. Quite the opposite, you do what you need to do to get them charged.

I disagree, if you have the knowledge that a generator is unable to fully power your charging system it is clearly a poor choice. I base my opinion on having used the exact set up, as i already had a Honda when the new boat came with a 3000 victron invertor/charger. It was adequate for a top up charge but as soon as it was required to do some real work it would overload and trip the gennie - endlessly frustrating and clearly demonstrates a lack of optimum charging. The OP can now avoid putting themselves in this position by buying a more suitable generator, why on earth would someone want to get by with state of the art equipment available?

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25 minutes ago, BWM said:

I disagree, if you have the knowledge that a generator is unable to fully power your charging system it is clearly a poor choice. I base my opinion on having used the exact set up, as i already had a Honda when the new boat came with a 3000 victron invertor/charger. It was adequate for a top up charge but as soon as it was required to do some real work it would overload and trip the gennie - endlessly frustrating and clearly demonstrates a lack of optimum charging. The OP can now avoid putting themselves in this position by buying a more suitable generator, why on earth would someone want to get by with state of the art equipment available?

 

and what if the genny that is "suitable", in terms of power, is completely unmanageable in terms of weight - that wouldn't be sensible either?

 

So... given that the OP seems to be stuck with a 120A charger, which has a facility to change that to 90A, or 60A, maybe even 30A, what is suboptimal about getting a genny that you can manage, and going with a 90A charge rate.

 

The Honda EU20i is 21kg, (so I guess the 22i is similar).... I could just about manage it, and could charge at 80A, but it was a faff to cart it about, (endlessly frustrating, as you say :) ). I now have a Honda EU10i, (13kg), and charge at 60A........ it is a dream to cart about, and life is much easier.

 

You don't seem to be able to consider that it can be "horse for courses", or "different strokes", and so on.

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25 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

 

and what if the genny that is "suitable", in terms of power, is completely unmanageable in terms of weight - that wouldn't be sensible either?

 

So... given that the OP seems to be stuck with a 120A charger, which has a facility to change that to 90A, or 60A, maybe even 30A, what is suboptimal about getting a genny that you can manage, and going with a 90A charge rate.

 

The Honda EU20i is 21kg, (so I guess the 22i is similar).... I could just about manage it, and could charge at 80A, but it was a faff to cart it about, (endlessly frustrating, as you say :) ). I now have a Honda EU10i, (13kg), and charge at 60A........ it is a dream to cart about, and life is much easier.

 

You don't seem to be able to consider that it can be "horse for courses", or "different strokes", and so on.

There will always be 'what if's' in any topic put out for discussion but unlike yourself and one or two others i am trying to answer the original question, which made no mention of weight or manageability. Drifting off topic and creating side issues with those trying to give an insight to living with this set up does nothing to answer their question.

Setting up a situation like this is akin to retarding the timing on a Ferrari to save petrol.

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My 2d would be to say I've been using a Honda EU22i with LPG conversion all winter, about 300 hours of use, and it has operated flawlessly.  My charger requires 70A and has worked fine.  Simple to maintain and very quiet, especially if you point the exhaust away from the boat and any neighbours.  I've had no complaints about noise, but plenty of folks enquiring about the LPG conversion.  LPG burns cleaner and sidesteps the issues of needing compliant storage for petrol (which also has a shelf life and is more of a faff to acquire on the canals).  You turn it off by turning the gas off, so any left in the generator is used up.  I get an average of 35 hours out of a 13kg cylinder, so it's about 75p-£1/hour depending on where you get your LPG.

 

Two other issues to be aware of... boy dogs seem irresistably drawn to piddle on generators... and the EU22i cannot be run in wet conditions. 

 

As others have mentioned if you just want power in the summer then spending the same amount of money (or less) on an oversized solar array will give you more power than you could ever want.  Solar is also much better and obviously cheaper for maintaining LA batteries. 

Edited by The Gravy Boater
typo
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3 hours ago, Richard10002 said:

 

and what if the genny that is "suitable", in terms of power, is completely unmanageable in terms of weight - that wouldn't be sensible either?

 

So... given that the OP seems to be stuck with a 120A charger, which has a facility to change that to 90A, or 60A, maybe even 30A, what is suboptimal about getting a genny that you can manage, and going with a 90A charge rate.

 

The Honda EU20i is 21kg, (so I guess the 22i is similar).... I could just about manage it, and could charge at 80A, but it was a faff to cart it about, (endlessly frustrating, as you say :) ). I now have a Honda EU10i, (13kg), and charge at 60A........ it is a dream to cart about, and life is much easier.

 

You don't seem to be able to consider that it can be "horse for courses", or "different strokes", and so on.

 

Spot on!

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2 hours ago, BWM said:

There will always be 'what if's' in any topic put out for discussion but unlike yourself and one or two others i am trying to answer the original question, which made no mention of weight or manageability. Drifting off topic and creating side issues with those trying to give an insight to living with this set up does nothing to answer their question.

Setting up a situation like this is akin to retarding the timing on a Ferrari to save petrol.

 

I disagree. One of the features of the OP's combi inverter/charger is the capability to dial down the output charge. What do you actually think such a feature is for? It's called adaptability. It may be used to limit the charge going to a smaller set of batteries of from a more limited mains supply or smaller generator.

 

Therefore in direct answer to the OP's original question: Yes that generator is suitable for your needs. Not everything needs to be run at 100% capacity all the time. If/when you find yourself at an overnight mooring with a 16amp or 32 amp supply, you can turn the output dial back up to full power for a slightly quicker charge if that's what you need.

Edited by blackrose
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4 hours ago, BWM said:

There will always be 'what if's' in any topic put out for discussion but unlike yourself and one or two others i am trying to answer the original question, which made no mention of weight or manageability. Drifting off topic and creating side issues with those trying to give an insight to living with this set up does nothing to answer their question.

Setting up a situation like this is akin to retarding the timing on a Ferrari to save petrol.

You are obviously one of those, "my way or the highway" types.

 

In the OP we were actually asked for "any advice and suggestions", and the OP may be delighted to know that the timing can be retarded in order to save petrol, amongst other things.

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24 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

You are obviously one of those, "my way or the highway" types.

 

In the OP we were actually asked for "any advice and suggestions", and the OP may be delighted to know that the timing can be retarded in order to save petrol, amongst other things.

What an inversion of reality, you and at least one other have been arguing with me! After being challenged i went on to argue that throttling down the potential output should not be something to aspire to - using that logic boaters across the system would be retrofitting tiny alternators and dynamos. If either of you had championed the balance of portability against output in the first instance i would not dispute that but neither did., the end result is that useful information is hidden by ego driven hogwash. 

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35 minutes ago, BWM said:

What an inversion of reality, you and at least one other have been arguing with me! After being challenged i went on to argue that throttling down the potential output should not be something to aspire to - using that logic boaters across the system would be retrofitting tiny alternators and dynamos. If either of you had championed the balance of portability against output in the first instance i would not dispute that but neither did., the end result is that useful information is hidden by ego driven hogwash. 

 

Dude you are the one with the ego who's talking hogwash. Utter bollox. You won't even tell us or the OP what you consider to be a more suitable generator. Since it's a given that a generator shouldn't be run on a narrowboat then of course portability is a factor even if the OP in their inexperience didn't ask about that. 

 

I really can't be bothered to argue with you any longer. Even the OP will be able to see for themselves who's right.

Edited by blackrose
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