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Painting outside of a narrow boat


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8 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

We're talking phones dude! 🤣

 

I respectfully disagree. It's perfectly possible with an angle grinder/wire wheel. I've prepped a lot worse than that and got to the bottom of all the pits. By all means use Vactan if you want to but it still needs to be properly scurfed out.

Maybe you can give some more tips and show me some picS of your work. I will appreciate that.

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2 hours ago, dmr said:

Rust under the chimney collar is a common problem, though the deep rust up to the handrail makes it more serious. Any boat welder will have seen this before and know how to fix it. The flue will have to come out which might just result in a new one if the old one is in bad shape, but again this is routine stuff for a boat welder. With the flue and collar out you can get a hand in to pull any insulation out prior to welding.

This is all worse case, there is just a chance there is enough steel left, but the chimney collar has to come off anyway.

 

..............Dave

I think you're right about the extent of the rust, even though it often looks worse than it is, this is as there appears to be scale lifting the collar away from the steel cabin top. Given that if the stove produces any corrosive ooze in the future it will quickly find flaws in filler repairs.

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I really appreciate all that advice. You all are so great.

I only put down the deposite for the boat and I noticed that on the roof.

Will that be picked on the survey?

 

I am buying it from Wilton marina and they said they fix things only if it's for BSR.

 

 

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Nb where are you intending to moor the boat and are you looking to live on it?

 

 

Edited by mark99
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6 minutes ago, Tanmim H said:

I really appreciate all that advice. You all are so great.

I only put down the deposite for the boat and I noticed that on the roof.

Will that be picked on the survey?

 

I am buying it from Wilton marina and they said they fix things only if it's for BSR.

 

 

 

Did anyone recommend a surveyor to you? If its Wilton r anyone connected with them be very, very wary.  The hull could be as bad as the roof. I just hope that boat is cheap, very cheap, it could easily turn into a money pit. How about linking us to the advert and we can give advice.

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10 minutes ago, Tanmim H said:

I really appreciate all that advice. You all are so great.

I only put down the deposite for the boat and I noticed that on the roof.

Will that be picked on the survey?

 

I am buying it from Wilton marina and they said they fix things only if it's for BSR.

 

 

A rotten roof is not part of the boat safety 

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7 minutes ago, Tanmim H said:

I really appreciate all that advice. You all are so great.

I only put down the deposite for the boat and I noticed that on the roof.

Will that be picked on the survey?

 

I am buying it from Wilton marina and they said they fix things only if it's for BSR.

 

 

 

I believe Wilton are not gentlemen ( 😀)

 

If you are buying an old boat at an old boat price then some rough edges are to be expected and will already be reflected in the price.

 

Yes, the survey will pick this up. If its a bad as I think then its more than a cosmetic rough edge as its likely rusted through. If the rest of the survey is ok then negotiate the price down a bit, don't let Wilton fix it, you will likely get a handful of body filler and be fixing it again at your own expense next winter.

 

Its not a BSS thing. If Wilton say they only fix BSS issues then they are scumbags.

 

...............Dave

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If the internal water tank is inspected and found to be rusted would that be part of bss as I am having a survey soon and ask for that to be opened to see and they said the same only bss ? 
so would that be covered under that as the bottom of tank is the base plate ! 

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4 minutes ago, Feeby100 said:

If the internal water tank is inspected and found to be rusted would that be part of bss as I am having a survey soon and ask for that to be opened to see and they said the same only bss ? 
so would that be covered under that as the bottom of tank is the base plate ! 

 

The BSS has very little if anything in it about structural integrity of the boat. The hull,  baseplate and water tanks are no part of it. On no account decide to buy a boat on the basis of a BSS certificate unless you know an awful lot about the type of boat you are buying.

 

For BSS think electrics, gas, fuel and pollution potential but even then a pass does not mean the systems are in good working order.

Edited by Tony Brooks
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5 minutes ago, Feeby100 said:

If the internal water tank is inspected and found to be rusted would that be part of bss as I am having a survey soon and ask for that to be opened to see and they said the same only bss ? 
so would that be covered under that as the bottom of tank is the base plate ! 

 

A surveyor can NOT examine inside the water tank, getting the access hatch off can be a big job and resealing it can take several days as all the paint round the edges will need several coats.

 

As Tony says, the BSS is very basic and mostly only looks at things like pollution from diesel spills and gas explosions that can hurt bystanders, it does nothing at all to look at the structural integrity of the boat. I propose that a boat that has sunk and is sat on the mud could still get a BSS pass if its gas and electric systems were still ok 😀

 

................Dave

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1 minute ago, dmr said:

 

A surveyor can NOT examine inside the water tank, getting the access hatch off can be a big job and resealing it can take several days as all the paint round the edges will need several coats.

 

As Tony says, the BSS is very basic and mostly only looks at things like pollution from diesel spills and gas explosions that can hurt bystanders, it does nothing at all to look at the structural integrity of the boat. I propose that a boat that has sunk and is sat on the mud could still get a BSS pass if its gas and electric systems were still ok 😀

 

................Dave

 

So true and it seems this is from Wilton. I hope the OP has not paid a deposit. Note, no indicaion if the surveyor was recommended by Wilton

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Basically, for both newbys buying boats....if the survey should find faults and more than 10% of the boats selling price is found in faults needing fixing(not just BSS stuff, but welding,,engine/gearbox faults etc etc), you should be able to walk away with your deposit back.

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5 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Basically, for both newbys buying boats....if the survey should find faults and more than 10% of the boats selling price is found in faults needing fixing(not just BSS stuff, but welding,,engine/gearbox faults etc etc), you should be able to walk away with your deposit back.

 

Personally I would not rely on that with that particular broker. I can almost hear the excuses and bullshine when a purchaser is a lady new boater.

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12 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Basically, for both newbys buying boats....if the survey should find faults and more than 10% of the boats selling price is found in faults needing fixing(not just BSS stuff, but welding,,engine/gearbox faults etc etc), you should be able to walk away with your deposit back.

Sadly I've heard recently of a quite highly regarded broker refusing to return a deposit despite the survey showing up faults well in excess of 10% of the purchase price. 

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39 minutes ago, Feeby100 said:

If the internal water tank is inspected and found to be rusted would that be part of bss as I am having a survey soon and ask for that to be opened to see and they said the same only bss ? 
so would that be covered under that as the bottom of tank is the base plate ! 

 

 

Maybe before buying a boat it could be worthwhile doing some investigations into various aspects of buying and maintaining a boat.

 

Fot example looking at the BSS website you will find

 

 

About the BSS Examination and its limitations

Please note: the BSS Examination findings, and examination report, relate only to the facts observed at the time of the BSS Examination. It is not evidence of compliance with the navigation authorities’ requirements at any other time.

The owner’s on-going responsibility: it is crucial to maintain the vessel in good condition in accordance with the safety requirements; and, any other licensing, registration or mooring conditions of the relevant navigation or harbour authority.  The validity of a BSS pass result may be affected and can be cancelled if the vessel is not properly maintained; and/or non-compliant alterations are made; or if a hire boat or other type of non-private boat is examined against the ‘private boat’ category of BSS checks.

A BSS examination and examination report relates only to the relevant version of the BSS Examination Checking Procedures published on boatsafetyscheme.org. Depending upon the nature of the specific check, the examination may be confined to items that can be seen, reached or touched.

A BSS examination is not a full condition survey, nor is it an indication that the vessel is fit for purpose.  For example, it does not cover the condition of the hull or deck, the integrity of through-hull fittings or the stability of the boat and it isn’t the same as having your boat serviced and doesn’t check its general mechanical condition.

Prospective boat purchasers are strongly advised to satisfy themselves about all aspects of a vessel’s condition by commissioning a pre-purchase survey before committing themselves to becoming new owners. Some surveyors are also authorised BSS Examiners and may be willing to carry out a BSS examination whilst surveying the craft if contracted so to do.

 

 

All the BSS tells you is that it is unlikely to blow up and kill any passers-by - IT IS NOT an indication that the boat is safe for the owner to use.

 

 

It may be worth investigating what a surveyor does and does not do, he will not, for example, unbolt the lid to a water tank and look inside, he will not connect any appliances to test them, they will just be marked as 'not tested'.

 

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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17 minutes ago, MrsM said:

Sadly I've heard recently of a quite highly regarded broker refusing to return a deposit despite the survey showing up faults well in excess of 10% of the purchase price. 

Strange as it may seem,  the subsequent survey for the subsequent buyer on the same boat by a very well known and reputable surveyor only turned up under £200 of work. The " well in excess of the 10%" figure was dreamed up by someone who hadnt actually visited the boat.

 

Edited by matty40s
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14 hours ago, Bee said:

I'm afraid that getting rid of the rust is just a case of sandpapering all the rusty bits. If you can use an electric sander then its not too hard but by hand its not much fun. then use a decent primer on the bare metal and at least two topcoats of any good paint, as Athy says, Craftmaster is a quality paint. An assistant to make cups of tea is useful as well.

 

Make the brews yourself and give the assistant the rust removal job!

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Whilton's contract also covers what it calls "insurable defects", so if the surveyor concludes the roof/chimney collar needs welding you shouldn't have too much problem getting it sorted.

 

(If it's just paint needed they won't do anything though)

 

 

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46 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Strange as it may seem,  the subsequent survey for the subsequent buyer on the same boat by a very well known and reputable surveyor only turned up under £200 of work. The " well in excess of the 10%" figure was dreamed up by someone who hadnt actually visited the boat.

 

Sorry to the OP about deviating from their topic. If my surveyor had found significant and expensive faults with my boat last year I would have had absolutely no choice but to turn the boat down and I think it would be a very rash first-time buyer that would act differently. I hope that most brokers would behave with decency. 

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9 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Did anyone recommend a surveyor to you? If its Wilton r anyone connected with them be very, very wary.  The hull could be as bad as the roof. I just hope that boat is cheap, very cheap, it could easily turn into a money pit. How about linking us to the advert and we can give advice.

 

G12283 Whilton Marina Updated Blacking Charges Feb 2020.pdf

Wrong file I uploaded.

Sorry 

The below is the correct information

That's the boat I am buying Brochure (1).pdf

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Tanmim H said:

 

G12283 Whilton Marina Updated Blacking Charges Feb 2020.pdf 198.14 kB · 3 downloads

Wrong file I uploaded.

Sorry 

The below is the correct information

That's the boat I am buying Brochure (1).pdf

 

No need to apologise, this forum stuff can be awkward

 

A good point is that it seems to be an all steel boat with steel handrails, so not wooden rails as I thought they might be.

 

As far as I can see from the photo the paintwork is in poor condition and I think I can see some rust patches/bubbles so you need to budget for a repaint. That will not be cheap and if rust has got under the window frames they will have to come out as well as having the flue roof flange off so the rust can be properly treated. DIY preparation and painting is possible outside but time-consuming and difficult. Its easier if you can hire a covered dock. I suspect to have it done for you would be about eight thousand for a budget job and the n upwards.

 

The roof you asked about plus the paintwork suggests to me the boat has not been well looked after and as others have said the roof in the area of the chimney may well be perforated. If so that will require some of the roof lining and insulation stripping out for welding so further expense. I hope other members can give you an idea about the likely cost but I would budget at least another £1000.

 

It looks like a new toilet has been purchased, to me this suggests either its been converted from a pump out for sale or the old one was in a bit of a state so again possibly poor maintenance. That engine has, I think, hydraulic valve lifters and if so it will not take at all kindly to a lack of engine oil changes.

 

The open plan and "London  white" paint  shows all the indications of having been a doer upper that has been tarted up for selling to a naive buyer, mainly for use as a house in the London area.

 

I can't see any mention of a fridge which seem odd.

 

Only your OWN surveyor can advise on the hull, it may or may not be sound but he is unlikely to make a definitive comment on the state of the engine and gearbox, Those are not part of the BSS and may also have been neglected.

 

At 30 years old unless you get into 4 yearly surveys it will be very difficult or impossible to insure fully comprehensive but third party is available.

 

Although boats  prices have gone silly over the last year my view is that this one is probably about the right price for one in good condition but to me, it seems overpriced with that roof and the poor paintwork. Again. I hope others with more recent price experience will give their opinion.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Tony Brooks
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